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  1. #1
    masalamonkey is offline Member 510 points
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    autonomic vs. automatic bladder

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    ok i cant (for the life of me) get this concept straight... what is the difference between an automati and autonomic bladder?

    thanks

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    it might be the same thing. i quickly glanced at the definition and it sounds the same to me. lots of similar things in medicine are called different things.

    for example motor urge incontinence is also called hypertonic incontinence or neurogenic incontinence or detrussor dyssynergia.
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    whatupdoc??? is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by masalamonkey View Post
    ok i cant (for the life of me) get this concept straight... what is the difference between an automati and autonomic bladder?

    thanks
    Oh man ok I think I still remember this.

    It depends on where you have damage to the spinal cord.

    Autonomous bladder: You have no afferent or efferent messages being sent to your bladder so it just keeps filling up and you'll need a catheter or you're screwed. I believe a "crushed pelvis" was the example where all your sacral nerves are destroyed.

    Automatic bladder: Is like reverting your bladder to when you're an infant. The sacral circuit is still there (ie. the micturition reflex) meaning that you still can't feel the urge to go like above, but your body will know when the bladder is distended and so you will AUTOMATICALLY urinate (ie. incontinence). This can be an example of when you have injury above the sacral nerves of the spinal cord... meaning the circuit below is intact and therefore the reflex is still there.

    I hope that's right! If so, bring it BSCE1...
    Last edited by whatupdoc???; 05-03-2009 at 10:47 PM.

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    RussianJoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatupdoc??? View Post
    Oh man ok I think I still remember this.

    It depends on where you have damage to the spinal cord.

    Autonomous bladder: You have no afferent or efferent messages being sent to your bladder so it just keeps filling up and you'll need a catheter or you're screwed. I believe a "crushed pelvis" was the example where all your sacral nerves are destroyed.

    Automatic bladder: Is like reverting your bladder to when you're an infant. The sacral circuit is still there (ie. the micturition reflex) meaning that you still can't feel the urge to go like above, but your body will know when the bladder is distended and so you will AUTOMATICALLY urinate (ie. incontinence). This can be an example of when you have injury above the sacral nerves of the spinal cord... meaning the circuit below is intact and therefore the reflex is still there.

    I hope that's right! If so, bring it BSCE1...
    yeah but even with the first one you'll still have leakage of urine once the bladder gets distended enough. it's not like your bladder is going to keep filling forever and will eventually burst.
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    masalamonkey is offline Member 510 points
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    thanks guys... think that makes some more sense. i was racking my brain over this for sometime yday in time for the anat final...

    on a completely unrelated note- how do you apply to be a des tutor? what are the selection criteria to be chosen and the work requirements per week?

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    RussianJoo's Avatar
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    when i was there you just go to the DES office and fill out a form, i think the requirements were you need at least a B in the class. you get paid for both prep time and actual teaching time i believe. just go to the DES office and talk to them. they'll take everyone at first, lots of people stop doing it mid way through. it's a lot of work.
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    whatupdoc??? is offline Senior Member 510 points
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    "keep filling forever and will eventually burst. "

    Haha true I should've specified further that the form of "relief" in the automatic bladder is much more substantial than the one in autonomous


    As for DES, yeah I think I filled out the form online so you'll get a notice for it soon enough. You also only get paid for a hours worth of prep time per week, but like RJ said many do end up dropping their DES sessions... I was spending like an hour a night review the material so it really is quite time consuming.

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    RussianJoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatupdoc??? View Post
    "keep filling forever and will eventually burst. "

    Haha true I should've specified further that the form of "relief" in the automatic bladder is much more substantial than the one in autonomous


    As for DES, yeah I think I filled out the form online so you'll get a notice for it soon enough. You also only get paid for a hours worth of prep time per week, but like RJ said many do end up dropping their DES sessions... I was spending like an hour a night review the material so it really is quite time consuming.
    yeah i guess one might be able to distinguish which bladder disorder you have by the amount of urine voided. in automatic bladder you empty your bladder i.e. residuals volume will be low, and in autonomic bladder you just dribble small amounts of urine until the pressure of the sphincter equals the internal pressure of the bladder and you stop voiding, thus your residual volume will be high. normal residual volume is less than 50ml's by the way.
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    15MD is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Is atonic bladder the same as autonomic bladder? This is from our neuro packet:

    Automatic Bladder

    In patients with transection of the spinal cord, reflexes in the sacral segment of
    the spinal cord may recover. Under this condition, the bladder fills until a
    threshold in pressure is reached, leading to a spontaneous reflex response,
    which automatically empties the bladder.

    Atonic Bladder

    Lesions of the dorsal nerve roots of the sacral segments of the spinal cord can
    interrupt afferent reflex fibers. In these conditions, the sensation of fullness of the
    urinary bladder is lost. As the bladder fills, incontinence and dribbling occur, but
    no micturition reflex is initiated by the increase in pressure.

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    RussianJoo's Avatar
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    glad someone is paying attention in class.

    thanks for the post.
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