'nuff said

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Saba Forum Moderator
Saba University School of Medicine, MSIV
Interests: Pediatrics, Psychiatry

Monstergirl –
I had originally written a very lengthy response to your questions, but due some inadvertent key strokes and losing my Cable and Wireless DSL connection, it was all lost and sent into internet oblivion. I’ll see what I can remember.

So how large are lectures?
That depends on the class and the time of the year. On the first day of lecture in 1st term, every single seat in Bell lecture hall is filled. Then as the term goes on, some people disappear, only to reappear at exam time. Every person has a different learning style. Some people are able to study for 10 hours straight in the library (not me). Some feel their time is better spent studying in the library, or in their dorm room, verses going to class. A lot of people pick and chose what lectures to attend, depending on who is lecturing. I know of one person in particular who is not used to a large lecture environment and thus misses a lot of lectures because she can’t (or doesn’t want to) pay attention. Obviously people who decel don’t attend all of the classes, so their seats are empty for some lecture. All that being said, there might be 30-50 or more seats empty during lecture, out of a 370 or so starting 1st term class. So yes, there are a lot of people in lecture. Some profs allow questions in lecture while others do not. 90% of the time the questions have nothing to do with clarification but are outside the scope of the lecture or better answered during office hours. But with the microphone system you can hear just fine what is being said. With the use of overhead video projectors, and with most profs using powerpoint, you can see what is being presented just fine (I should know since i sit in the next to last row). If you’re the kind of person who likes to sit up front, just get to lecture early (like a ½ hour early for 1st term) and you’ll be ok. As is human nature, after the first week or so, people have “their” seat picked out.

Is the class size a drawback?
No. Infact I think it’s a plus. With so many people in the class from so many different parts of the world and with different ethnic backgrounds, I have learned alot about other cultures. And this is going to benefit me as a doctor since I will already be aware to how certain cultures operate. For instance, for some cultures, it is more appropriate to tell the family a diagnosis and have them tell the patient. (I didn’t say that is now I’m necessarily going to do things, but still it helps to know the custom.) For some cultures nursing homes are not even an option for a relative in failing health. In yet other cultures, in is inappropriate for a woman to report abuse to a male doctor. So the drawback is that you might actually meet someone different than you and learn something about them.

Also, with so many people in the class, you’re bound to find a few (or more) good friends who have the same study habits as you. In my case my friends became my study group. Some people like to discuss material to learn it, so this makes doing that a lot easier. You could literally sit next to a different person each day and still not meet everyone in your class. So that’s cool if you like meeting new people (I still don’t know everyone, but I don’t try very hard either.) As a down side, its easier to form cliques in such a large class, so then if you don’t want to branch out and meet people with a different culture than you, then you don’t have to, but its pretty tough.

A friend of mine is a US med school where they send ½ of the class to satellite campuses for the basic science years. She is in class every day for 2 years with the same 16 people. I think I’ll vote for my class of 300something.

When it comes to some things, you will be broken up into small groups. This is the case for clinical skills (where you interview mock-patients), biochem case studies, BSF group discussions, and physio case studies. Unfortunately they break these up by the alphabet, so you will undoubtedly be with the same people for all of your small groups. But then again, you get to know those people really well.

So what about resources?
What resources??!! Just kidding. There’s tons of resources at SGU. Lets start with study space. Ok, granted there is not enough space for the entire school to study in the library at the same time, there are however, many other places people find to study. The lecture halls are generally open at night, except for club meetings and presentations. Superdorm 1 has a top floor study room. And I’ve even been known to study at the cafeteria tables and chairs. (Some people study at the beach, but I don’t know how productive that is.) And then there’s always your dorm room to study in. The 24hour study room in the library gets (understandably) full during exam time, which aggravates the people who are accustomed to study there every day. Are the study rooms loud? Well the library is full of people whispering, the histo/path lab is a designated non-silence area for histo/path lab groups to meet, and the bourne lecture hall sometimes has people whispering. But bring a set of earphones (or earplugs), put on some Bach or Beethoven and you won’t hear anyone else. If you’re looking for an Ethernet port to connect to, then you might be out of luck, but that’s just because there aren’t enough of them around. But that’s why I suggest a wireless card. And what are you doing on the internet?! You should be studying!!!

As for the anatomy lab… Things have changed (as they seem to do every term – its called improvement, or atleast an attempt at it) since I took the class. But the lab was never packed for us and even at exam time it was easy to get around. Some of the profs host review sessions in the lab which can be very well attended and crowded, but I usually went to a mid-morning review with Dr. Hague and there was never more than 5 of us there. There is only 5-6 of you with your cadaver during lab, and generally one professor is assigned to 3-4 tables. (please let us know if any of this has changed.)

Office hours.
Profs tend to have lots of office hours. This isn’t the twice-a-week-for-an-hour-at-a-time type of thing you might be accustomed to in undergrad. Typically its every day for a few hours at a time (or whenever you’re not class). On top of that, profs are willing to meet with groups of people outside of office hours and even on weekends. Often times the office hours can be so well attended (as in physio and neuro) that they ask that you make an appointment with the secretary. And depending on when in the week you sign up, that can either mean the next day or the next week. When you make an appt., its typically helpful if you meet with the prof in a group, so their time can be spread among as many students as possible (and your group might be able to answer your question before you head off looking for a prof). Since we’re on the topic of professors and their office hours, many of our profs are MDs and are willing to help you out if you have an injury or a non-class related question. Dr. Hague (an ENT) has been known to stitch up a periorbital laceration right in his office, and Prof. Goodmurphy has tons of sports medicine experience. (Don’t worry, if you get hurt you won’t have to track down a prof to stitch you up. The school runs an ambulance and we also have 24hour security. Your RA will have a radio, connecting them to security as well.)

Other resources.
The DES department is always willing to help you out with study skills etc. They tend to be pretty busy at the start of the term and around exam time, but when you get in to see them, any time you spent waiting will be well worth it. And they’d rather have you come talk to them at the start of the term rather than later, so you don’t get yourself in a bind. They’re probably one of the least-used but most-beneficial support services the university has to offer.

The library is mostly used for study space and their computers for email, but if you ever need a book or are looking for information, there is sure to be someone to help you – even at night. The library stays open until 1:45am M-Th nights and closes a little earlier on the weekend.

When you arrive you will be assigned a faculty advisor. Typically they will take a group of you (their advisees) out to eat (on the university’s bill, which in the end was already paid for by your tuition). How much you use your advisor is up to you. You need his/her signature for a leave of absence or to decel.

Long lines for food on campus? Not usually. I’m not an expert on waiting times in the “cafeteria” but I’ve never had to wait longer than 5 minutes for a wrap (just about the most popular food item on campus, next to Glover’s pizza, or the Patel’s.) The sugar shack (down by SD #3 and across from the lower vet campus) only makes you wait for as long as it takes to cook your order. So your time waiting for food is from how long it takes for them to cook your order (or get around to cooking your order), and not your class (or university) size.

Plan on waiting awhile if you go to the clinic. That’s just because they only have one doctor there at a time, their hours aren’t extensive, they see patients from the community (but students and staff are given 1st priority), and in general things in Grenada take a little longer.

Let me address the “weed out” phenomenon a little. To an extent, SGU does weed out its classes, in the form of the decel program, BUT its not for the same reasons a large university might do it. The school wants you to do well. They also want you to do well on the boards and get good residencies so they can look good and maintain the strong reputation we have. Don’t think this means they only let the “cream of the crop” continue on into the next term. They want you to succeed, not just pass your classes. And if you’re having trouble, they are more than willing to help.

So let me brake it down to you (since no one told me this until I arrived for 1st term.) (All of this material I have obtained from the student handbook, which can be accessed from the member’s center of the SGU homepage, for those of you who don’t have your copy handy.) You must maintain above a cumulative 2.25GPA. For 1st term this means you need atleast one B in a 6 credit class (biochem or anatomy) or a B in both histo and embryo, with the rest Cs. I think you can still do it if you get an A in histo and Cs in the rest, but don’t trust my math. If you get a 2.25 or less, then you are automatically decelled for the next term, and from then on until you bring up your cumulative above 2.25. If you flunk a 1st term course (or below a 2.0 there after) then you are brought before the academic board (or something like that). They will want to know what happened and what you plan on doing to fix it for the following term (don’t blow this off, technically you are recommended for dismissal). There are more specifics to it but that’s a good background for you. Oh, you need to either have atleast a 2.5GPA or pass the BSCE2 to take the step 1 boards. (But worry about that later.)

I haven’t decelled myself (yet) so I can’t speak from personal experience, but I’d imagine the school’s reaction to you not doing well in class or not passing is “Wow, what’s going on? What can we do to help?” instead of “You stupid idiot. You don’t have what it takes to become a doctor. Get out of here. You’re just taking up space.” So it’s a weed-out program per se, but for different reasons.

And about the decel program. I know a lot of people in it and I really don’t think they’re looked down upon by others taking a full load. Infact I admire them for taking that step, swallowing their pride and making their med school experience longer. I almost envy them too because they will have more time to devote to each class and (arguably) will know the material better than someone who has to split their time between 4 classes. Oftentimes the people who decel are the same ones who teach the DES review sessions because, 1. they have the time to do it, and 2. they know the material really well. So how many decel? I can only give an estimate from my class and what people tell me, but I’d say about 50. If you do the math, your class size doesn’t really change since you’re getting the decels from the class ahead of you and losing the ones from your class at the same time.

I was talking to a 1st termer before midterms and he said he knew “a lot” of people who quit and went home. When I asked him why they did, he said it was because they really didn’t want to become doctors. I replied by saying, “that’s the best reason I know for going home.” Why am I bringing this up? Well for one, I don’t know anyone from my class who dropped out, nor do I know anyone who flunked out, but then again I don’t know that many people in my class to being with. (I do know of one guy who flunked 2 courses 1st term and is now taking them over and doing quite well.) So it was surprising to me to hear him say that. But then again, don’t believe everything you hear. I do know of quite a few people who took a leave of absence, though, for all sorts of reasons, but I don’t think its any different that any other med school.

Competition among students?
Sure. We compete to see how well we can do as a class compared to previous classes. Listen, I’m sure you can find the small group of people who like to compare scores after exams and won’t talk to you if you did worse than they did, but you don’t have to make them your friends. After a test its “How did you do? What did you think of it?” not “What’s your score? I bet I did better than you.”

Last term we had just taken the written anatomy exam and were about to go in and take the practical. One of my friends was sure he flunked the written. He was sure he’d be back in anatomy the next term. What did we do? We told him not worry and to just concentrate on the practical. We told him that part was over and there’s nothing he could do about it now. We didn’t tell him he should have studied harder or that he was a big slacker. Sure, that was when he was there, but did we talk about him behind his back? Yep. I told some of our mutual friends about what happened so they could be prepared if his fears came true. Well he must not have done too poorly because he’s still in my class.

A couple of my friends became more interested in eachother than in their studies this term and now have had to decel. Do I think less of them? No. I feel really bad for them. They’re both really smart but unfortunately put other things ahead of med school this term. On the other hand, they both apparently found the love of their life, so I’m also happy for them.

Be happy to know no one cares about your MCAT score or GPA once you’re here. I only know a few stats from my friends, when they volunteered it on their own. Most of the times I’m left wondering why they didn’t get into a US school.

Sure you’ll get the few “know-it-alls” in your class who memorize the anatomy texts for fun and think they’re "God’s gift to medicine." But you’ll soon realize who those people are, and hopefully they’ll realize people are only friends with them because they want their knowledge. I’m the first one to admit I don’t know something or that I forgot something from last term(which happens more than I care to admit). The response from people is not “Ha ha, you dumb idiot. You didn’t learn anything. I bet your patients will have to tell you how to take a temperature.” They typically try to jog my memory by relating it to a graph or a teaching point in class. If that doesn’t work, then they assess what I know and then teach it to me from there. But it works both ways. Listen, we all have to help each other. I’m sure there are those who got through med school all on their own, but I certainly don’t want to try that.

When you’re a doctor and you come across a disease you’re not familiar with, other than checking texts, you’re going to call your colleagues. Perhaps you’ll know a specialist, or someone who works in that area, from your med school class. The people you’re in class with are the ones you’ll be relying on for information and to send and receive referrals, because they’re the ones you trust and know the best. A lot of people don’t realize that and distance themselves from their classmates. Or they offend everyone that no one is left to give them the time of day. But most of us realize it and seek to build strong friendships in med school. Its really not that hard. I mean we all pretty much have 1 thing in common - we were all rejected from US med schools. We all wanted to become doctors bad enough that we were willing to fly 1,000s of miles away and live for months (or years) at a time away from home. (Sounds like a mastercard commercial.) That will bond you together faster than you think.

Do you think there is a stigma associated with people who are down here after leaving a career? Not really. I’m more likely to ask them why they decided to become doctors, or feel incredibly immature in their presence. A lot of people (even here) can’t comprehend leaving your job and way of live to pursue a medical degree in the Caribbean. But I have a feeling those people are in it for different reasons.

Do you think if I was competing with my classmates that I’d spend my time online, helping those behind me so they can do well and not have to learn so many things the “hard way?” (Ok, you’re right.. its just an excuse to procrastinate from studying ). Once you get here you’ll see it for yourself. As a first termer you will get tons and tons of advise, even when you don’t want it. I like to say we’re a family here. We’re the only close family we have for 8-10 months out of the year. Many of us (hopefully) are in medicine because we want to help people. It just makes sense that we start by helping our peers and future colleagues, not competing against them.

OK, I must admit there is some competition in the class - a couple of my friends compete to see who can finish the exam first.

As for Saba, I don’t know anything, except that supposedly they had a few this year ace their boards. But that’s second hand information, so check for yourself.

Listen, this is just one person’s perspective (mine). As with any advise or opinion , take it “with a grain of salt.” But if you start to notice a trend in what you hear, then perhaps there is some truth to it.

Yep and that's what drove me nuts the most (and still does when I'm there).
Steph

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Steph
If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed response.
You have made many points which are helpful to me and leave me feeling an increasingly informed student entering this falls class at SGU.

I have arrived at the conclusion that some of the points brought up regarding SGU and its student body can be chalked up to human nature. Some people will be competative no matter where they go, cliques will form, others will complain, some will party, others will bury themselves in material, some will adjust well, etc... Thus what you mention makes sence. It also confirms: you can make this experience into whatever you want it to be. Which is GREAT.

I am also rapidly reaching the conclusion that some of the biggest adjustments I will be making is to studying (or shall I say consuming) the volume of material in the curriculum and the culture of the school (which I expect would be influenced by Granadian culture). Having travelled around the world a little bit, I know its one thing to be on vacation and slow down/adjust to a host country's customs versus work/adjust (ie:being s student) to an environment's mode of operation when you have to perform in some way. I am anticipating a slower pace -which is not a criticism- and believe it will be a challenge for me, yet not impossible to deal with. (mind that I am comparing this to my home NYC.)

Sonya

Thanks for the informative post drnick....

Much appreciated...

IndianBabu

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SGU SOM, Class of 2009
An ex-samosa technician with a big heart from Canada.

I think you're bang on and will do great. BTW Im from nyc too. Grenadian culture isn't slow. Its sllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllloowwwwwwww . but you know what? They're good people and its a far more intact society than many places in the uS (can you say "brooklyn?")

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Steph
If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

wow. i just came across this, and what an encouraging and informative post. decided to bring this up to the front in case any newbies were wondering about SGU.

thanks dr. nick.

Wow, you went way back in the archives for that one Cowgirl. I agree though, this was the first time I saw this post and Steph and Dr. Nick offered some really great information.

cowgirl must be really bored today

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Shhhhhh........

nope, just searching for topics about stethescopes, and i came across this on one of the links at the bottom of the page