SGU Response to SC Students - Page 15

OLDPRO · #**141** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by options

This is a good point. There is something annoying about how easily SC students can get bailed out of this problem. Everyone on here talks as if it is completely the schools fault for what has happened. Sure, the school is definately the party at fault here, but shouldn't the students have been a little more cautious with their own futures?
Even the people who never go on valumd and never hear the discussions here should have wondered why this school in england will take you without an mcat, with low grades, and has only been around a few years. Sounds too good to be true to me, turns out that was the right assumption.
The people at SGU right now are there because they made and informed choice about what school to attend. Nobody attends a school in grenada because they like the island. These students knew what was right and did not try to take shortcuts. I can see how they are annoyed that SC students get off scott free.

Funny but this kind of thinking is like: I know building a home and living in an area that will eventualy be hit by a Hurricane is risky but I'll take the risk, living in an area like the midwest that is always hit buy tornados is a known risk but people continue to do it, living in a known flood plane is a known risk and people do it, not wearing a seat belt is a known risk and people do it, Why is going to a school that at first appears to most people it is okay that the school does lie to everyone including the professional organizations around the world, why is it really any different? It's a distaster just like any and some of the risk was not known IMO. Also I'm from Atlanta and Life University (Chrio school) was in accrediation problem a few years back and still student were going and continued to enroll, the Accreditation was revoked so any that were there were affected and still I had empathy for all who went.

You know if you don't take risks you never succeed at anything.........
Fortune favors the bold.

stephew · #**142** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 11:40 AM

Its hardly scott free if you have to repeat years. Guys, get out of the bedsit and into the world here. Its not up to you to punish other students for the choice they made. This really falls under the worry about your own life catagory, and count your blessings if this is all you have to annoy you in your life.

Miklos · #**143** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whuds

Funny but this kind of thinking is like: I know building a home and living in an area that will eventualy be hit by a Hurricane is risky but I'll take the risk, living in an area like the midwest that is always hit buy tornados is a known risk but people continue to do it, living in a known flood plane is a known risk and people do it, not wearing a seat belt is a known risk and people do it, Why is going to a school that at first appears to most people it is okay that the school does lie to everyone including the professional organizations around the world, why is it really any different? It's a distaster just like any and some of the risk was not known IMO. Also I'm from Atlanta and Life University (Chrio school) was in accrediation problem a few years back and still student were going and continued to enroll, the Accreditation was revoked so any that were there were affected and still I had empathy for all who went.

You know if you don't take risks you never succeed at anything.........
Fortune favors the bold.

whuds,

Allow me an example:

Hurricane Katrina wiped out a good part of New Orleans, thanks to the levies failing. The responsibility for the levies strangely belonged to the US government since the 1960s. In effect, the federal government provided a guarantee of local infrastructure for a problem (much of the city being below sea level) centuries old. Thanks to this, it was always thought that someone else (the Feds) would take care of the problem. Everyone knew that sooner or later a big enough Hurricane would come.

By providing for the levies or insurance, the government is introducing a moral hazard. In other words, people would act very differently if this guarantee (or insurance) did not exist. (Broadly and generally speaking, the market is a much more efficient allocator of resources than government.)

In N.O., this probably would mean that businesses and the city government would have done something about the levies decades ago. Or, people would not buy houses on a flood plain, etc..

In terms of seat belt use, what do you think would happen if the insurance company dictated that they would not cover medical payments if it was determined that the driver/passenger did not use their seat belts? I suspect that compliance would be above 95%.

My original point was the following: If SGU is known to pick up the pieces when other schools implode, it may well create a moral hazard in the future.

Miklos

OLDPRO · #**144** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miklos

whuds,

Allow me an example:

Hurricane Katrina wiped out a good part of New Orleans, thanks to the levies failing. The responsibility for the levies strangely belonged to the US government since the 1960s. In effect, the federal government provided a guarantee of local infrastructure for a problem (much of the city being below sea level) centuries old. Thanks to this, it was always thought that someone else (the Feds) would take care of the problem. Everyone knew that sooner or later a big enough Hurricane would come.

By providing for the levies or insurance, the government is introducing a moral hazard. In other words, people would act very differently if this guarantee (or insurance) did not exist. (Broadly and generally speaking, the market is a much more efficient allocator of resources than government.)

In N.O., this probably would mean that businesses and the city government would have done something about the levies decades ago. Or, people would not buy houses on a flood plain, etc..

In terms of seat belt use, what do you think would happen if the insurance company dictated that they would not cover medical payments if it was determined that the driver/passenger did not use their seat belts? I suspect that compliance would be above 95%.

My original point was the following: If SGU is known to pick up the pieces when other schools implode, it may well create a moral hazard in the future.

Miklos

Yep I understand but when speaking of moral hazards, I think my examples hold, there are many moral hazards in life and I do not fault the ones we never saw coming but happen due to a risk, life is a risk from the time we are born. Not all students do investigate the schools they go to as much of some of us, I know way more now than 2 years ago when I started this road.

It's time to let go and give them a break. Mistakes made and there is some compassion along with economical reasons offers are made it benifits both as I see it. These students will be paying full when done with redo, some after 1 or 2 semesters others 3 to 4 but all will pay sooner or later and the hughe loans they already have will get to be more but not as much as they would have.

AUCMD2006 · #**145** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by love for all

People seem to be encouraging st. christophers students to come down here. I am from the uk and if I were to chose right now given the circumstances, i would chose a european school. It is less hassle when it comes down to finding work and some of them have been around for close to a 100yrs and also have excellent teaching. If u can get accepted at sgu u sure have a chance at these schools. I know because I was. They are also cheaper. Please read the thread i posted on practise in the uk. I don't know why it was removed from this thread since it is relevant to the choice SC students make (majority of SC students are UK students or international UK graduates from what i know).

In regards to the student discount. I am partially sympathetic. I have met a no. of international students and american students down at sgu who lost money in phony private schools in the uk. They were not given discounts and most had to start from square one. This i consider unfair. On the other hand the school is out to make money first so i don't think much of a discount will be given anyway.

The international scholarship offered looks like a lot at first hand but you soon realise it's pretty much meagre and nothing compared to the amount of money you end up spending.

You are well trained but at the end of the day u can also be well trained in any european school plus less hassle when it comes to finding a job.

I really wish the school would do more to accomodate and guide uk students...

You may agree or disagree but that's my point of view

.

but you went to SGU, a carib school geared towards the usmle, composed of US faculty, with over 90% american students and the vast majority intending on US practice, UK SC students thought they were in a brittish med school

seagoddess · #**146** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by love for all

People seem to be encouraging st. christophers students to come down here. I am from the uk and if I were to chose right now given the circumstances, i would chose a european school. It is less hassle when it comes down to finding work and some of them have been around for close to a 100yrs and also have excellent teaching. If u can get accepted at sgu u sure have a chance at these schools. I know because I was. They are also cheaper. Please read the thread i posted on practise in the uk. I don't know why it was removed from this thread since it is relevant to the choice SC students make (majority of SC students are UK students or international UK graduates from what i know).

In regards to the student discount. I am partially sympathetic. I have met a no. of international students and american students down at sgu who lost money in phony private schools in the uk. They were not given discounts and most had to start from square one. This i consider unfair. On the other hand the school is out to make money first so i don't think much of a discount will be given anyway.

The international scholarship offered looks like a lot at first hand but you soon realise it's pretty much meagre and nothing compared to the amount of money you end up spending.

You are well trained but at the end of the day u can also be well trained in any european school plus less hassle when it comes to finding a job.

I really wish the school would do more to accomodate and guide uk students...

You may agree or disagree but that's my point of view

.

well that begs the question.. of why you chose to come to SGU. i don't doubt the UK system is great but u know as i'm sure you're aware SGU is a very good school. perhaps you want to practice in the US and I don't blame anyone for wanting that. and most schools in europe are not geared toward the USMLE.

medguy · #**147** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 12:57 PM

Most of the discussions so far seem to be directed at the tuition waiver. How about the admission standards at SGU?

I know, for a fact, that there is a student at St. Chris who’s undergrad GPA was 2.2. I suspect that there are others like that. And what about MCATs? Not required at St. Chris. I may be off, but I bet most students at SGU were on the edge for a U.S. school. Their GPA’s, for the most part, are pretty good and their required MCAT average is what? 26? It’s the most competitive school in the Caribbean.

Also, what about the others who didn’t quite make it into SGU and went the MPH route. I’m guessing that their GPA’s were a bit higher than 2.2. How fair is it to them. If I was one of these guys, I’d be pretty upset.

I agree about the tuition waiver. They probably will end up paying the same anyway with living expenses during the make-up year(s), tuition already paid to St. Chris and lost future earnings. But don’t compromise the standards.

Saora1 · #**148** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 01:10 PM

They are not just letting any student who wants to enter do so. There is still evaluation of academics. At least that's my understanding (and would be logical).

Quote:

St. George’sUniversitySchool of Medicine may have a solution for the students of St. Christopher’s who find themselves in a terrible position through no fault of their own. Our senior administration is inclined to look into solutions but not at the expense of our academic integrity - our duty is to our current students and alumni. Our applications are such that there are six applicants for each seat this fall.

Any solution offered by SGU will ensure that our high academic standards are maintained, that the students have the best chance of licensure in all jurisdictions, and that the students will have the best possible foundation for success in medical school and in the profession of medicine.

Over twenty years ago a Caribbean medical school closed and the students were left without a future. SGU worked with the administration of that school to ensure the students’ futures with the abovementioned quality controls in place.

The Admissions Office spent many days and nights reviewing the admissions qualifications of all students and they were divided into categories of readiness for admission.

Even though this is referring to the past, I assume that the same would be done now i.e. review of admissions qualifications.

stephew · #**149** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 02:13 PM

the same addmissions standards apply BUT rememebr sgu doesnt use a hard cutoff. im not on the committee but i would imagine that if someone were weak pre med but excellent in med school, that would be considered seriously.

Saora1 · #**150** (**permalink**) 03-28-2006, 02:25 PM

I was considering that steph i.e. if they don't use the MCAT in addition to grades as some kind of judgement criteria, how well can they really make an evaluation compared with current/past students? Of course, that's ignoring my opinion on the MCAT as a predictor which is a rant for a whole 'nother day.

But without knowing anything really about SC, their program and their grads (this news was the first time I'd ever heard of the school and I had to Google to find out what was up) let's, for the sake of argument, say it is not as good a school or difficult a program as SGU. What then? Would it really be a valid predictor and/or assessment to use their medical school performance at SC?

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