Thread: INTO St George's, University of London (UK)- Courses for Int'l Students

Hi-

St George's, University of London in partnership with INTO University Partnerships is offering degree programs in International Medicine (Bsc/MBBS- 6 years), International Graduate Medicine (MBBS- 4 years) and in Biomedical Sciences (BSc Hons) that are exclusively for international students. This means that there are programs with spaces for students who are not UK or EU citizens to study in London at the St George's, University of London campus with is co-located with St George's Hospital.

The International Graduate and International Medicine courses are beneficial to students who wish to be exposed to both the UK and US medical systems as two years of US clinical experience is built into the curriculum.

Staff from INTO St George's, University of London are currently holding seminars and attending student fairs across the US, Canada and internationally. Check out INTO SGUL : INTO UK to learn about the upcoming events as well as the available course options.

If you have any questions about these programs please feel free to reach out to an INTO staff member by emailing: namerica(at)sgul.ac.uk or you can submit an inquiry through our website at INTO SGUL : INTO UK.

Best Regards,

Shannon Smith
INTO St George's, University of London

Hi Cpt,

Thank you for your concerns. I'm reiterating that when it came to making the decision to be affiliated with WAU, the INTO SGUL program directors did choose to be affiliated with a program that would be of benefit to students and we are looking to add additional programs as well. I'm working on getting more info from the INTO SGUL administrators about this for you since this is such a major point of concern for you.

Our tuition rates aren't meant to get extra money from students. They were based on the operational cost of the program along with a currency conversation rate from GBP to USD.

If you have any other questions about the program please don't hesitate to contact me, and I'll post an update as soon as I can with any additional info about our clinicals and program.

Best Regards,

Shannon

Originally Posted by INTO- SGUL

Hi Cpt,

Thank you for your concerns. I'm reiterating that when it came to making the decision to be affiliated with WAU, the INTO SGUL program directors did choose to be affiliated with a program that would be of benefit to students and we are looking to add additional programs as well. I'm working on getting more info from the INTO SGUL administrators about this for you since this is such a major point of concern for you.

Our tuition rates aren't meant to get extra money from students. They were based on the operational cost of the program along with a currency conversation rate from GBP to USD.

If you have any other questions about the program please don't hesitate to contact me, and I'll post an update as soon as I can with any additional info about our clinicals and program.

Best Regards,

Shannon

I'm sure SGUL had no intentions of producing an inferior program. Of course it can be very difficult learning all laws of the land for another country, especially when their are 50 different states and almost as many different licensing requirements. It is no easy task to be sure.

But if SGUL really wanted to benefit the students they would ditch the WAU program, except maybe for surgery if they do in fact have surgical residents from Howard there, and get affiliated with ACGME approved clinical rotations. Or give the students the option to remain in the UK. This way they won't encounter licensing restrictions after graduation.

Thank you for forwarding these concerns to INTO SGUL administrators.

I'm sure you don't want to be out of a job in four years so you have something at stake here too.

I can all but guarantee you a program with a £130,000 sticker price won't be around 5 years from now if graduates don't have success with residency matching. To get that kind of money you have to produce respectable results, which I am just not certain the program can do in it's current form.

Originally Posted by Cpt

The current state of this program is going to create major licensing problems in the United States.

You may as well not attend a medical school if the clinical rotations are in the United States and are non-ACGME "green book" rotations.

It's not good for the students. And it's not good for SGUL.

Sure, SGUL may be raking in the profits in the short term by sending students to an inexpensive hospital for clinical rotations. But once the first class graduates and terrible residency match statistics are released, because students did all non-ACGME clinical rotations, then a $200K program is going to die. Nobody is going to pay $200K to attend a medical school that boasts a 40-50% match rate.

For reference the "Big 4" Caribbean schools, that have license eligibility in all 50 states offer everyone the chance to do ACGME approved "green book" clinical rotations. And their residency match success is no higher than about 80%.

Match rates for schools that use non-ACGME US clinical rotations are less than 50%.

Match rates for Irish schools that conduct their entire program in Ireland are north of 95%.

SGUL is doing no favors to North American students by offering non-ACGME clinical rotations. In fact they're hurting those students significantly.

funny..thats better than US MD schools...what is your source for that %...frankly I've never met a grad from an Irish school in a residency program and only met one on the interview trail (but that was 4-5 yrs ago).

Any new medical school program is going to experience growing pains, but I would bet on SGU-L getting their crap in order faster than most. They have a vested interest in getting it right, based on a global reputation that they would not likely be in a hurry to sully. As it stands, they do have some time to gain additional ACGME training posts for their US clinicals.

I would hesitate to equate an SGU-L medical diploma to an AIMS medical diploma in any regard. I'm pretty sure which of the two I would rather have on my CV, anyway.

Hi Cpt,

It's been my pleasure to pass on concerns from posters like you and others who've commented on this thread to the INTO SGUL administrators. They're all very keen on seeing feedback so that we can be sure that we're addressing any concerns.

SGUL has been around for 250 years and in the 6-years that INTO has been operating we've seen considerable growth in our ventures with our partner schools. All parties are very excited about the INTO SGUL program and we'll continue to update the program as needed so that students will continue to benefit year after year.

Best Regards,

Shannon

@rok - I've met and corresponded with a few Irish grads (RCSI, Trinity-Dublin, and UCD), and they have all been really happy with their decision to study in Ireland. I don't know about the 95% number, but they do seem to do pretty well (Rads, Med-Peds, FMP, etc.). Then again, nowhere near all of their grads are aiming to return to the States, so that can't be a percentage of the total graduating classes.

Originally Posted by rokshana

funny..thats better than US MD schools...what is your source for that %...frankly I've never met a grad from an Irish school in a residency program and only met one on the interview trail (but that was 4-5 yrs ago).

You can research it. But they don't have any problems matching. They're realistic and stick to primary care. Even Canadians that are Irish grads match into the United States (which is a little more difficult than US citizens doing it because of the visa issue). But the match rates for Ireland are very very strong.

Originally Posted by devildoc8404

@rok - I've met and corresponded with a few Irish grads (RCSI, Trinity-Dublin, and UCD), and they have all been really happy with their decision to study in Ireland. I don't know about the 95% number, but they do seem to do pretty well (Rads, Med-Peds, FMP, etc.). Then again, nowhere near all of their grads are aiming to return to the States, so that can't be a percentage of the total graduating classes.

Very well said.

Irish grads that want to pursue postgraduate training in the US generally get it, but of course not everyone who graduates from an Irish school pursues postgraduate training in the US. You almost never hear about somebody who failed to match. Unless they were too ambitious and only applied to radiology posts.

Originally Posted by Cpt

You can research it. But they don't have any problems matching. They're realistic and stick to primary care. Even Canadians that are Irish grads match into the United States (which is a little more difficult than US citizens doing it because of the visa issue). But the match rates for Ireland are very very strong.

you quote a number that is a little hard to swallow and have no source for it....i don't need to research it, i just don't believe it...i'm not saying that an Irish school graduate doesn't match, but there are m/l not many that decide to try for residency in the US and so their numbers are't that great...

and sorry EVERY FMG has some level of difficulty in matching in the US, its part and parcel of being a F/IMG...

but i find a 95% match rate to be a bit hard to swallow when the FMG match rate is <50% (which is an nrmp stat BTW)...

Originally Posted by rokshana

you quote a number that is a little hard to swallow and have no source for it....i don't need to research it, i just don't believe it...i'm not saying that an Irish school graduate doesn't match, but there are m/l not many that decide to try for residency in the US and so their numbers are't that great...

and sorry EVERY FMG has some level of difficulty in matching in the US, its part and parcel of being a F/IMG...

but i find a 95% match rate to be a bit hard to swallow when the FMG match rate is <50% (which is an nrmp stat BTW)...

The majority of students in the Irish medical schools are very intelligent. It is harder to get into Irish medical schools than it is low-tier MD schools in the US, and Canadian students with 3.8 GPAs and 33 MCAT scores often can't find a place in Canada so they go to Ireland instead. That being said, every student at an Irish school is US MD caliber.

That is why the match rate is on par with US MD graduates.

The 50% IMG match rate comes from students who go to bad Caribbean schools and don't match, and there are A LOT of them.

You'll find that most Americans & Canadians studying in Australia, Ireland, and Europe all do very well matching. It's the one coming from the bad Caribbean schools (the ones without non-ACGME approved US clinical rotations, see how nicely that tied in?) that really drag that number down to 50%.