Home Forum Books Links Album Residency USMLE PreMed


Caribbean Medical Schools European Medical Schools Foreign Medical Schools Medical Resources
Go Back   ValueMD Medical Schools Forum > FOREIGN MEDICAL SCHOOLS > St. Christophers College of Medicine

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack (4) Thread Tools Display Modes
  #271 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2005, 05:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 300
There's not only been a focus on St. Chris, but also on some non-related seemingly somewhat dodgy schools like London Medical College etc. Frankly speaking, from a UK/GMC perspective, it seems that the easiest option is to do as the US and other countries have done, and simply prohibit medical training within the host country, unless the school's been approved by the host government.

And as others have pointed out, even if St. Chris gets the suspension lifted, and is altogether on the up and up, it might easily be in trouble again, if another school uses the same model, and flames out.

Personally, I must admit that I find it somewhat strange that you can receive a medical degree from a university located in a country where you've never been, and never plan to go to?!? Additionally, it's somewhat strange that St. Chris would engage primarily in teaching for the US-style MD degree, whereas Senegal follows the Continental (integrated) model, and conducts training in French to boot. But I'll leave that for the GMC to sort out...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #272 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2005, 06:27 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathOne
Personally, I must admit that I find it somewhat strange that you can receive a medical degree from a university located in a country where you've never been, and never plan to go to?!? Additionally, it's somewhat strange that St. Chris would engage primarily in teaching for the US-style MD degree, whereas Senegal follows the Continental (integrated) model, and conducts training in French to boot. But I'll leave that for the GMC to sort out...
Yeah ... that is odd. Isn't the Francophone med programme at least 7 years, as well? How that transfers, I'm not sure.

I wonder what's happened to the European College of Medicine, too ... the other school in the BBC report. That was more scary. A school which was out and out lying.

I have wondered, though, if a school like SC is so confident of its teaching standards why don't they just seek official medical teaching certification from the US or the UK authorities? If they're up to scratch and deliver an education which is to the standard of UK and US hospitals, then this shouldn't be a problem, right?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #273 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2005, 08:37 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 300
Well, that chance is remote at best. In the US, the LCME is loath to certify new schools, even those with a strong academic backbone, like UCF in Orlando. And in both the US and the UK, there's no tradition whatsoever for certifying what's essentially stand-alone medical schools (the only US example that comes to mind is UCSF, which has been certified for ages).
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #274 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2005, 10:19 PM
Genossa maximillian's Avatar
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: somewhere in the Abarat
Posts: 2,185
Also....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PathOne
Well, that chance is remote at best. In the US, the LCME is loath to certify new schools, even those with a strong academic backbone, like UCF in Orlando. And in both the US and the UK, there's no tradition whatsoever for certifying what's essentially stand-alone medical schools (the only US example that comes to mind is UCSF, which has been certified for ages).
In Puerto Rico, with 4 medical schools (3 of them LCME), one of them around since 1979, San Juan Bautista School of Medicine, has not gained LCME status, and this is a school that owns its own hospitals. Last time I checked it was still pending, don't know if that has changed.

The chances of St. Chris or any other for profit international medical school gaining such recognition? let me put it this way, it is more probable that a 3 mile wide asteroid will hit the planet before that happens.

Especially St. Chris, with a charter in Senegal, basic sciences in Luton, clinicals in the us and UK. They do not even emphasize their Senegal campus enough. They really have an identity crisis.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #275 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2005, 10:48 PM
### ### is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,286
SC raises interesting issues

...........................

Last edited by teratos; 05-26-2006 at 08:03 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #276 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2005, 11:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by ###
I think SC brings up all kinds of interesting questions:

1) What is the real value of a charter?
2) Is there any reason why medical education needs to be so parochial?
3) What is the problem with commercial schools?
4) Does medical education need to be related to a university to be effective?
5) Can a large portion of medical education be delivered by the internet?
6) Why does medical education need to be delivered by a single supplier? Why not pick and choose courses and rotations from the best provider?

SC is pushing the envelope on a lot of these questions. More power to them, but I wouldn't let them do it with my money. I am sympathetic to their cause; however, I think they are swimming upstream. I suspect that fifty years from now the answers to these questions may be:

1) very little - many govts provide no significant oversight
2) no - we live in an international market with international standards
3) none - in fact it delivers better value than the slothful, beaurocratic universities that serve as playgrounds for faculty
4) no
5) yes
6) no reason why not - carib schools do this to some extent.
I would tend to agree with you, but remember that, for obvious reasons, the education, training and licensing of physicians is a politically highly sensitive subject, so change is likely to be a lot slower than many might believe (I did note that you gave the answers 50 years hence, which makes sense). Also, remember that the "old school" medical schools wields many levers of power, including an entrenched and large alumni group, and they too would be likely to fight any and all changes in the status quo.

However, obvious kinks in the armor of medical school governance has indeed started to emerge. The only logical reason why ECFMG, GMC and other licensing-related authorities adhere to the WHO list is, that it is assumed that governments somehow monitor and regulate the medical schools they charter. That assumption is, obviously, deeply flawed today, where most enterprising companies or individuals can get a charter somewhere in the world, be it the Caribbean, Africa, or even the Seychelles or some Pacific island.
So at some point the system has to be changed. But change also means that someone can get stuck in the door. Thus, if I was to make a choice today (which I don't), I would probably make a safe bet, and go to a well-established school. And frankly, if I had run through every MD and DO school in the US and the well-established Caribbean and other schools, I might have to seriously consider getting a career without the vaunted "MD" suffix to my name...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #277 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2005, 08:47 AM
jpryor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyop
Who are the other government representatives you're referring to? From what department are they from? Are there names available? Do they even work in Senegal, or are you referring to staff from the Senegalese High Commission in London?

I'm not asking these questions to have a dig at you, by the way ... I'm asking because I don't know.

If these other officials include the Ambassador and his staff I can't see how they would have much of a clue ... if they did attend the SC campus, and Ambassador will accept most invites, especially if a company is doing business in his/her home country. Whilst they might 'inspect' premises (ie 'take a tour and shake hands') it doesn't mean they will INSPECT premises (ie check all your paperwork and references are legal).

Can anyone shed any light on who these other officals are?
Within days of this situation developing, the Senegalese government evidently communicated to UK authorities that it did, indeed, support SC. The technical intricacies surely machinated beyond that and none of us knows those details. To infer anything else, be it for or against the school, is speculation.
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #278 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2005, 09:29 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 27
What's taking so long?

I know that things don't work the same in UK as it does in U.S. But, how come it's taking so long for GMC to decide on the status of St. Chris?

Is the administration saying anything regarding this matter? Or are they telling the students that "everything's all right" as they've been telling the students, like so many other issues of SC?

Has it affected any of your clinical students in the U.S.? Would it affect the licensure in U.S.?

When will NY approval be completed? It's been almost 2 years now, since the NY visit, hasn't it?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #279 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2005, 12:26 PM
Genossa maximillian's Avatar
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: somewhere in the Abarat
Posts: 2,185
It takes time to conduct a responsible investigation. I assume that is the reason. Why don't you contact the GMC directly and ask them why they are taking so long?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #280 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2005, 03:05 PM
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: multiple accounts
Posts: 2,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedracer
When will NY approval be completed? It's been almost 2 years now, since the NY visit, hasn't it?
this is another issue that seems pretty important to me, and most students seem happy to overlook it.

as it stands now, the status of st chris with the GMC is in question, the duration of the relationship with senegal is in question, and the school has zero approvals in the US, or from any agency that looks at standards or accreditation. a lot of serious issues, yet somehow they still get students to attent. that amazes me.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.valuemd.com/st-christophers-college-medicine/52289-gmc-change-status-st-chris.html
Posted By For Type Date
St. Mathews Uni. School of Medicine - Student Doctor Network Forums This thread Refback 11-19-2006 08:52 AM
St. Mathews Uni. School of Medicine - Student Doctor Network Forums This thread Refback 11-19-2006 08:31 AM
St. Mathews Uni. School of Medicine - Student Doctor Network Forums This thread Refback 11-19-2006 03:24 AM
St. Mathews Uni. School of Medicine - Student Doctor Network Forums This thread Refback 11-19-2006 02:11 AM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List of Countries where US trained osteopaths are recognized azskeptic The Relaxing Lounge 6 10-18-2005 07:53 AM
My thoughts on why AUC should be your last resort for educat newaucmd American University of the Caribbean (AUC) 100 02-18-2005 07:09 AM
Problem 11: Immune response to self Anonymous USMLE Step 1 Forum 0 06-16-2004 07:09 PM
Problem 4: Adaptive immune response Anonymous USMLE Step 1 Forum 0 06-14-2004 10:27 PM
Immunology High Yield Anonymous USMLE Step 1 Forum 2 04-05-2004 12:17 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2003-2008 ValueMD, LLC. All rights reserved.
Home About<