Licensure, clinicals, residency - Page 4

Nebakanezer · #31 (**permalink**) 04-14-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValuelessMD

I too agree that the first few clinical transfer students applying for licensure should be licensed very soon or by July 2005 at the very least. I also agree that it is reasonable to assume that something about their medical education is being questioned (especially since SC is a new school and they are the first of the first). But, it is not neccessarily because of the the SC portion of their education. It could very well be because of many other factors, ie/ poor grades, poor student performance, or for other reasons at the school(s) before SC. Such as it seems with the Kigezi/SC student failure to obtain a training licence in Texas. Regardless, all of this remains conjecture.

My point, however, was that even if a clinical transfer student does get licensed very soon, these students will not have done their basic sciences out of charter, thus, will not be in the same position as a student seeking licensure if they started everything in Luton, England. If there is to be a charter issue, it will not be dealt with until these students apply for licensure. And, what ever date that is, is the one that I am most interested in -- does anyone know what the earliest will be for these students, assuming February 25, 2000 (May 2000 semester start) as the starting point?

I think it would be better to assume Sept. of 2000, so 4 years of MD school, and at least 2 years of residency, that means Summer/Fall of 2006 is the earliest we should have licensed grads that studied exclusively at St. Chris, or if they all decide to wait until 3rd year/completion of residency, Summer/Fall of 2007. This assumes no major breaks during that time, so it could possible be as late as end of 2007 or sometime in 2008.

That timeframe includes the Cambridge Campus, if you are thinking of students that started at the Luton Campus, which opened in 2002, that would be Summer/Fall 2008 or if they applied during their 3rd year/completion of residency, Summer/Fall of 2009. If they took time off inbetween, then possible the end of 2009 or sometime in 2010.

cmy · #32 (**permalink**) 04-15-2005, 11:06 PM

If I were to attend St. Chris for the first two years then transfer to SABA or ROSS or some other school which is approved in California, could I apply for residencies and licensure in Cali?

studentMD · #33 (**permalink**) 04-15-2005, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmy

If I were to attend St. Chris for the first two years then transfer to SABA or ROSS or some other school which is approved in California, could I apply for residencies and licensure in Cali?

no, for you ot be eligible to practice in california (residency etc) you will need to complete your entire education at a california approved school..

stchrisrep · #34 (**permalink**) 04-16-2005, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmy

If I were to attend St. Chris for the first two years then transfer to SABA or ROSS or some other school which is approved in California, could I apply for residencies and licensure in Cali?

No, because your first two years will not be recognized by California since we are not approved by them. Just like studentMD said.

You are better off going to Saba or Ross from the beginning.

Picard · #35 (**permalink**) 04-17-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Where did they say this?
Show me a law or an official statement by the N.J. board that says this.

Are you referring to the St. Peter's article which had a lot of errors in it and was not an official statement from the N.J. Board of Medicine. Even the supposed executive director, Ian Orr, is incorrect. The article was removed from the Jersey Journal site several months ago.

Also, there are no charter issues with New Jersey. Kigezi has a licensed graduate in New Jersey.

Here's NJ Administrative code on IMG's...

Quote:

13:35-3.11 Standards for licensure of physicians graduated from medical schools not approved by American national accrediting agencies
(a) An applicant for a license to practice medicine and surgery in this State, who is a graduate of a medical school not eligible for and not accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education or the American Osteopathic Association, shall satisfy the conditions in this section to be deemed eligible for New Jersey licensure by examination or to be licensed by endorsement of a sister-state license.
(b) During the course of the applicant's medical training, and at the time of graduation, the medical school(s) was listed (or notified of eligibility for listing) in the World Directory of Medical Schools published by the World Health Organization, or the medical school(s) was approved and authorized by the country of domicile to confer the degree or certificate evidencing completion of a medical curriculum for the plenary practice of medicine and surgery.
(c) The applicant shall demonstrate successful completion of the full medical curriculum, didactic elements and clinical training prescribed by the medical school and by the country in which the medical school is located and within which the training took place, and successful completion of all of the educational requirements to practice medicine in that country.
(d) If the applicant is a national of the country in which the medical training was received, the applicant shall have obtained an unrestricted license or certificate of registration to practice medicine and surgery in that country.
(e) An applicant who has successfully completed the full basic science studies (or the equivalent of the first two years of an American medical school) in the foreign medical school located in the country of domicile authorized to confer the degree or certificate and has been given academic credit for successful completion of clinical training programs in United States hospitals, with residency programs approved by the American Council on Graduate Medical Education and the American Osteopathic Association in that field, shall demonstrate that the medical school was approved by the New Jersey State Board of Medical Examiners to conduct such a program in this State, or that the program was performed in a sister-state and recognized as acceptable by the Board.

Since Luton is not "located in the country of domicile authorized to confer degree.... Kigezi's grad may have slipped through, or their time in Uganda may have been viewed favorably... either way, the legislation is clear on this issue, you must attend basic science in the country of charter.

As for the NJ article -- outdated news articles are removed from the newspapers website routinely, that proves nothing. If Mr. Orr is mistaken, please show us corrections from his superior in NJ board. Don't you think if Mr. Orr made a mistake, the board would want the record straigten out and would come out with a correction? Show us.

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stchrisrep · #36 (**permalink**) 04-17-2005, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picard

Kigezi's grad may have slipped through, or their time in Uganda may have been viewed favorably... either way, the legislation is clear on this issue, you must attend basic science in the country of charter.

Well, things just don't slip through the cracks. If they licensed someone from Kigezi, then any school like them can easily get licensed in NJ as well. If NJ tries to prevent this, any school can prove that they violated their own laws and they can be held liable for this. However, these schools operate by saying that their English campuses are extensions of their African campuses and that their curriculum falls within the domicile definition.

Quote:

As for the NJ article -- outdated news articles are removed from the newspapers website routinely, that proves nothing.

Again, the article was NOT an official release by the board. It was a form of propaganda to scare off people and it had errors in it.

Quote:

If Mr. Orr is mistaken, please show us corrections from his superior in NJ board. Don't you think if Mr. Orr made a mistake, the board would want the record straigten out and would come out with a correction? Show us.

The board and Mr. Orr don't have to do this because the Jersey Journal made the mistake not them. That is probably why the article was removed.

Also here are some quotes from the archives:

http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic16151.html

Quote:

"It raises questions when a school is training students at a place other than where it is licensed to be a school," said Ian Orr, executive director of the state's Board of Examiners, the licensing body for physicians in the state.

Quote:

"We have a fully functioning school," ***** said. "The rule in New Jersey was written to exclude Internet schools. Orr (the Board of Examiners director) has no function to interpret the rules."

One thing, if the rule was written to exclude Internet schools, then this rule does not apply to us.

Also, Mr. Orr was NEVER an executive director or director on the N.J. board. The article gives him two different titles and if you look on the New Jersey Medical Board's website, you'll notice Mr. Orr is not listed as neither executive director or director.

Here's a list of the directors:

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/bme/board/staff.htm

Quote:

Executive Director

William V. Roeder, J.D.
Mr. Roeder oversees the Board-office units and assists the Board with its review of policy issues, rule making, bill comments, and preparing substantive correspondence in response to requests for guidance on Board regulations and policies.

Medical Director
Joseph Gluck, M.D.
Dr. Gluck has served as Medical Director of the Board since 1998. He is responsible for providing the Board and the Medical Practitioner Review Panel with input on investigations and disciplinary matters under review to Medical Director. He also reviews compliance with probationary requirements of disciplined licensees.

Director of Operations
Debra DeFrancesco
Ms. DeFrancesco oversees the Board operations relating to providing services to the Board’s constituencies, including the public, licensees, applicants and those relying on the Board to verify information about licensees.

Executive Director of the Medical Practitioner Review Panel/ Director of Meetings
Mary Louise Mottola
In addition to serving as the Executive Director of the Panel, Ms. Mottola coordinates services relating to the Board’s other decision-making venues, including the monthly meeting of the full Board and its various committee meetings. She oversees the preparation of agendas and minutes and the management of all documents to facilitate decision-making.

Director of Investigations
Linda Beveridge
Ms. Beveridge oversees functions relating to the exercise of investigatory authority. Her staff corresponds with involved parties to obtain needed information, secures reports from experts, refers to the Enforcement Bureaus for field investigations, and schedules investigative inquiries before the appropriate Board committees.

Patient Advocate
Christina Smith
The Board has designated a Patient Advocate who can assist patients with questions and status updates on matters under investigation.

Director of Public Filings
Margaret Harris
Ms. Harris’ unit is responsible for the public filing responsibilities attendant to disciplinary actions, from complaint and order filing (and the preparation of all of the notices of action and reports to outside agencies and authorities) to tracking compliance with probationary requirements and recording payment of financial assessments such as costs, penalties and reimbursements to consumers.

bts4202 · #37 (**permalink**) 04-17-2005, 09:51 PM

I think Mr. Orr was secretary to the executive director or something. I hear he is great at getting coffee!!

Picard · #38 (**permalink**) 04-18-2005, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:
"We have a fully functioning school," ***** said. "The rule in New Jersey was written to exclude Internet schools. Orr (the Board of Examiners director) has no function to interpret the rules."

Umm, quoting your own school's propaganda to rebut a NJ official... very convincing. Sorry, your school's past is full of lies and misleading half truths...

As for Kizegi's licensed grads -- show us a link... we will be happy to ask NJ board about this. People kept talking about Kizegi grad's license in NJ... no one has shown us a link (showing a link to the board does not violate TOS...)
Otherwise, the law is black and white...

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VCJ · #39 (**permalink**) 04-18-2005, 10:22 AM

[quote="Picard"]

Quote:

As for Kizegi's licensed grads -- show us a link... we will be happy to ask NJ board about this. People kept talking about Kizegi grad's license in NJ... no one has shown us a link (showing a link to the board does not violate <a href=http://www.valuemd.com/disclaimer.php>TOS</a>...)
Otherwise, the law is black and white...

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Picard, werent u the one who brought the kigezi grad up in the past threads, so u why dont u enlighten us with some proof to back your statements because as it stands no one can be believed because ur info about the grad was inaccurate in the past and noone else has giving any proof to support anything...

Even what u said about us having licensure problems with our grads has been contradicted with ur own statements on this post... u? credible?

Picard · #40 (**permalink**) 04-19-2005, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Picard, werent u the one who brought the kigezi grad up in the past threads, so u why dont u enlighten us with some proof to back your statements because as it stands no one can be believed because ur info about the grad was inaccurate in the past and noone else has giving any proof to support anything...

I brought up one Kizegi grad who was/is having licensing problems in various states on the East Coast and has to repeat her residency. There is nothing to "link" here since she is NOT licensed. So you can't find her on state board web sites. And since providing names violates TOS here (besides I wouldn't want to provide a person's name anyways), you can believe what you want in this situation. The point is, if there is a licensed grad, it's perfectly OK to link to the state board info on the person per TOS to verify licensure (public info). You can't link to someone who was denied licensure since the info does not exist in most state board sites... NOW, bts and company is claiming that Kizegi has permenently licensed grads in NJ... well, providing a link to NJ Board's licensing verification page is not against TOS here -- so I'm asking for a link to the licensing verification page to verify bts'/stchrisrep's claim.

Quote:

Even what u said about us having licensure problems with our grads has been contradicted with ur own statements on this post... u? credible?

What are you talking about? Where is the contracdiction? I just stated as I have all along, that I believe SC grads are not licensible in NJ as quoted above in NJ Administrative Code, no matter how stchrisrep wants to twist the black and white language in that code.
And if NJ Journal indeed misquoted Mr. Orr, where is the correction? Newspaper print corrections when they misquote people, where is the correction? If Mr. Orr is indeed misquoted by NJ Journal, I'm sure his employer, the NJ board, would want to set the record straight by insist on corrections with official statements... it's just common sense. The fact that the article is no longer on NJ Journal's website means squat, I can't find articles from a month ago on Sacramento Bee's website... outdated articles are pulled from newspaper webs all the time, this is why we paste actual articles from newspapers rather than provide links.

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