Do I even have to post a reply back to this? Thanks for that quick history lesson on the difference between NY DOE Approval and NY Accreditation. This is exactly what I mean in my previous post by people breaking off into tangents. What am I “WRONG” about, which you so boldly stated in your last post? Was I comparing NY DOE Approval and NY Accreditation? From my understanding, a school must apply for approval FIRST. I mean a baby must crawl in order to walk, right? How can St. Chris apply for NY Accreditation if they haven’t even been approved yet? Like I said before, the “NY APPROVAL” is the most important thing as of RIGHT NOW. If St. Chris gets denied then obviously it doesn’t meet the minimum requirements needed/expected of most medical schools. Hence threads like this will NEVER exist because all anyone has to say is, “NY APPROVAL DENIED!”

BUT If they get approved, then that is just “one small step” closer in becoming a more qualified/established institution (“NOT the end-all determination of SC's viability”, which again I never said.)

“So the fact that NYS inspectors had some form of campus to see during a pre-announced inspections means one thing -- SC had time to prepare and put up a show for them to see... that's all.”

Lastly, you’re telling me people on the NY DOE Approval Committee can be fooled? People who in some cases are qualified MDs and have been doing this for years and years can be deceived? I mean I’m sure it can be done because nothing is impossible, but I think it would be highly unlikely. Obviously you do not know the whole process of the NY DOE Approval. It is not your simple point and shoot.


Anywhoo, this is exactly why I don’t bother posting on websites like this because talking to some people, it’s like having a conversation with a dead moth.

not really directing it to all the students. just the few who justify all the problems within SC by stating "at least its not the caribbean" and "PDs will take us over any carib grad".

like i said before....... you need a product before you can see if it is truly worthwhile.

__________________
Dr. Scott
Internal Medicine
PGY-1

AUC Forum Moderator

not directed at you guy, it was a generalization to most med students including myself back when i beleived everything admin would tell me.... now that i am old and bitter i say show (jerry mcwyre dance) me the proof.......


it is interesting that you personalized the stetement though....in the future i will paste the whole quote and yes this has been talked about beofre but things haven't changed and prospective students still need the info....sure as hell ain't gonna get any gritty from admin they won't even tell its own basic science students were clinical sites (unless theyt are "tight" with admin to quote a PM) are until they pass step one.....

__________________
OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

This is the statement that prompted my reply to his naive belief that somehow NY approval will solve "most issues, if not all of them"

Again, nobody is saying SC shouldn't pursuit NY approval. Like I said, it's only a basic baby step. Keep in mind that SC has been in existance since 1998 without any sort of external approval/accreditation, and is only now taking its first step for recognition. Now, don't start saying GMC this or WHO that. GMC's "recognition" of SC is only a formality that allows SC grads to sit for PLAB, a "recognition" that's given to virtually all medical schools in the world that is WHO listed, including fraudulent schools like IUHS/UHSA's internet school. It has ZERO accreditation/curriculum evaluation process. WHO listing is just a phone book listing. And SC has eligible grads for the past two years without licensure. That's the problem. What about Max who is in TN doing surgical residency and who has been reportedly in the licensure process since last June? Could it be that the recent change in TN law (requiring offshore schools to be LCME equivalent) has doomed Max's bit for TN licensure? As a potential student, wouldn't you want to know these information? Apparently SC students are too busy pretending to be British medical students because it sounds "cool." As much as SC folks are denying here, that's how SC's clinical students are behaving on the wards... I've heard that from residents and attendings in CT and NY -- first thing that comes out of SC students mouth when they were asked where they came from, they say, "England"... now when asked if they go to a British school, they all say, "Yes, St. Christopher." Guess what, this is not fooling anyone...

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php?searc...=2001&cause=27
http://www.nypdangels.com/wtc.htm
http://www.hampsteadnh.us/police/A%2...ica%20Died.htm
http://longmontpolice.com/MEMORIAM.HTM

[quote="bts4202"]Unannounced visits are taking place voluntarily at certain hospitals as a pilot program, in preperation for 2006 when all visits will be unannounced

Of course NY inspectors can be fooled. That's the inherant limitation/fault of pre-announced visits. Why do you think JACHO is going to start doing unannounced visits? JACHO inspectors are experienced physician and nurse investigators and JACHO has been around longer than the NY DOE offshore inspection services. JACHO has realized that during announced visits, they only see what the instituation wanted them to see... If announced visits work so well, why is JACHO abandoning it?
This is why NY approval isn't worth much in the eyes of the US medical community. It's a first step, but it's not worth much. And SC's been around since 1998... and it's only NOW taking the first baby step?

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php?searc...=2001&cause=27
http://www.nypdangels.com/wtc.htm
http://www.hampsteadnh.us/police/A%2...ica%20Died.htm
http://longmontpolice.com/MEMORIAM.HTM

i thought surgery is a 5 yr residency? can u apply for a limited license in 3 yrs??? also, how do we know max is not gonna apply for a fellowship after?

in addition, just for comparison, how many licensed grads do SMU and other recently opened colleges have? when was SMU set up? (looked on their website, no sign of licensed grads and setup year, maybe i missed it)

thanks

surgery is 5 years, but as img's we are eligible for licensure typically in 3 years, although some states allow it after 2 of postgrad. the reason most residents need the license as soon as possible is that it allows them to sign scripts, etc...without cosigs from attendings. makes life a lot easier for everyone to have a full license as soon as possible, even if you are still a resident.

SMU has claimed about 7 (i think) licensed grads. check their forum...also, that is a pretty good forum in terms of forthright info from admin. SMU has its own set of issues, but they are so much more open about them (students and admin).

Almost all states allow IMG's to be licensed (permenent, full license) after their PGY-III year. Many, if not most, will allow permenent licensure after PGY-II year. In the case of TN, IMG"s are eligible after 3 years. Residency programs want their residents to be fully licensed ASAP for many reasons -- signing their own script is just the beginning. A fully licensed resident also means revenue for the hospital because the hospital can bill for his or her services.

Plus, many specialty boards have unrestricted "licensure" as a condition of being called "board certified"... some specialty boards won't even let you sit for the final written exam if you don't have a unrestricted license. And most fellowship programs require their applicants to be licensed... and require their fellows to be board certified in their parent specialty within the first year of fellowship. So Max is long overdue for his licensure.

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

http://www.odmp.org/search.php?searc...=2001&cause=27
http://www.nypdangels.com/wtc.htm
http://www.hampsteadnh.us/police/A%2...ica%20Died.htm
http://longmontpolice.com/MEMORIAM.HTM

Research I had done earlier indicated that several "St Chris" grads originally attended the 'earlier version' of the school 1998-2000 before the present administration took over. The earlier group didn't have any charter apparently. This would possibly present some problems in licensing?

__________________
Moderator - State Licensing Forum

Still skeptical after all these years.
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