"I raised the issue out of basic fairness. Besides, it's not of historical interest only since the stigma created by these early schools is pervasive and persistent."

yes and even though these schools could be compared to some lower tier US schools now, the 30 other schools popping up keep propagating new and worse stigmas to overcome.


"It's also a shoddy tactic to criticize a particular school that has been in existence a few years (and one that you personally don't like) for not being California approved, yet be an apologist for another school (one that you do like) that went through a similar process"

don't like a school? for that i'd first have to care about it. if SC, SJ, even ross or sgu were to fall off the planet tomorrow at 7am, i would say "that sucks" and go ahead eating my wheaties.

you make some great points in most of your posts because from your point of view its all bashing but its not really critizing, its countering spin, false advertising etc that as a prospectice student myself beleived. i don't think i would feel right if i didn't raise valid issues that propective students may not know about...

just last week a prospect asked if aua was lcme so they can apply for loans! this just shows how truly clueless we all are at the begining and why sites like this are an invaluable source to counter balance the barrage of ** that all our schools spew in marketing. even then it doesn't help all the time, just read ahead to chris123 who knew about all these issues and still chose to go, but at least they can't say they didn't know the risks


"It must not be a very good marketing ploy to advertise "It only took our school 17 years to obtain approval" since that information isn't listed on the schools' web sites. But you honest types don't mention any of that, do you?"

not as good as saying a school has a US campus, is affiliated with cambridge, good to go in 48 states, affiliated with john's hopkins, affiliated with harvard, have a twinning program to get staffords, and so on.

honesty? whatever has been asked in the auc, sgu, and i know the ross forum about they school past or present has been answered with no **. after the hurricane SGU'ers critized the schools performance, lack of security, etc. rossie's critize the school for academic policies, crowding, crime. i have personally posted about auc's colorful past, the move from montserrat the time classes were held above the casino, the whore house that followed. so i really don't know what more you want.

"Two years ago, every regular poster and moderator on ValueMD critiqued the school I chose to attend. The constant themes were --Where are the graduates?---Show me somebody in residency---What are the pass rates? etc., etc., etc."

because these are questions you don't think about as a premed. and most of these were asked when there were things said about your school by students who hadn't even stepped on campus yet!

"The school was only a couple if years old and, under the best of circumstances, wouldn't have had any students who had progressed that far---but the pontificating masses on ValueMD didn't acknowledge those truths."

good point, but again this is another thing that most premeds wouldn't think about. we are used to going to schools that are stable, and are regulated so asking how long a school has been around, if they own thier property etc. aren't the typical things we are used to have to worry about

"Instead, everybody wanted to puff up their egos and appear parental and experienced and attempted to scare potential students away from the school. And you all sure didn't like me standing up to you."

again in order to like or not like i'd have to care. i could care less wether you went to st james or st ballsack, as long as the info is there you can make up your own mind

someone already in medschool, having researeched and learned about all these side issues you bring up SHOULD come off as 'parental and experienced' because they are MORE experinced in this matter than you. well just get ready for more parental and experienced advice from residents, attendings.

if you don't take the advice of people who have gone through the process then who would you get it from? someone that will not come off as parental and "experienced"? perhaps the hospital janitor, why don't you ask him on his take on matching, starting a practice, or treating a patient..you can be sure they will not be parental or experinced, perhaps then you will not think they are pontificating and telling you what to do....

you bring up great points but it just seems like you have a problem taking advice, i mean as soon as a question or critiquie comes down from people ahead of you in the process, we are pontificating and critizing, bashing, etc because we are all elitists, and don't know what we are talking about, but you as a premed back then had everything in focus and knew the answers to all these questions.

"There's a consistent attempt to label me as a cheerleader. Odd that I would choose some of the underdogs if that was my inclination."

you aren't a cheerleader, you bring up good points that need to be considered.

"its graduates are getting high scores on the USMLE and progressing as well as graduates from any other school."

thats not the point, every school will have a few people with high scores and many that will pass. the point is for students to know that they will have limitations on what they can do later on. it will not matter if you get a 259 but 20 years later a dream job falls on your lap in cali or any other scenario involiving country of charter, online credits, etc.

"But if bringing up the history of the early schools annoys you---oh dear god---then good. Your erzatz elitism wears thin."

again in order to be annoyed, i'd have to care. the history of the schools should not matter to ANY prospective student. they aren't applying to the st james of 20 years from now which may very turn out to be the best med school on earth in 2026. if it was 1980 then sgu, auc, and ross would not be good options either. i wonder how many other schools we've never heard of collapsed in those days?

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I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

This website sucks.0

post deleted by user

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....Life in the key of Eb

" I would like to see those individuals held responsible for the hardship that this has caused"*

*part of a quote from a post on this thread that acused people on vmd of being the sole cause for what is going on at SC and requesting that vmd posters be held solely responsible

perhaps you can start with the admin? then move down do some silly open internet forum...

__________________
OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

Hey Chris123,

Thanks for a detailed explanation of why you left. Much better than how Medques said it. This post definitely will change my choice now.

This website sucks.0

You mean you were considering up until the point you read his post

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Bored certified
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DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

The points in BOTH posts were RIGHT. Just wanted to say good job guys you are doing an awsome job getting your views across. I heard these same LIES when St.Chris came to Canada to do an interview, i can't believe this. I know alot of people from St.Chris come here and thier minds ARE changing, people are leaving and looking for better options. I really hope other people will share thier stories, as both of you have done. The canadain embassy has found out about this school, and their ON it. Alot of people are going to be sueing the school, they will not get away for making us suffer. Good job medques and Chris123 keep it up!!! please tell more of your friends to post here.

While I agree with jpryor that the newer schools today are probably in better shape than the older established schools' infancy 30 years ago... and that the whole offshore grad stigma begain with the older schools, I am not as keen on making the comparison in this situation. The reasons are:

It's different time and different political climate. Yes. Every industry (and make no mistake about it, offshore education is an industry) has its beginning. But, every industry as a whole must progress with time. The older, now established offshore schools started the industry with little to go on, and suffered through their growing pains. Nowadays, the industry has had 30 years to "mature." Newer schools have "road maps" to follow, and have the luxury of seeing what worked and what didn't. They are not starting from scratch. They should be held to the standards of TODAY, not standards of 30 years ago.

A similar example can be used in the computer industry. Imagine a new start up computer company making "Apple IIe" computers with 500kb hard drives, and arguing that they should be given a break because 20 years ago when IBM, Mac's were in their infancy, that's the kind of computer they made. And new computer companies should be given a few years to "catch up"... perhaps as much as 20 years to catch up, because that's how long IBM/Mac had to make the products they make today.

Or, imagine a new airplane manufacture goes to NTSB and ask that their new planes be held to the safety standards of 1930's (if there were any), because their company is new... And because Boeing, MacDonald-Douglas have been "given" more than half a century of experience to make the type of plane they make to meet today's safety standards. And this new airplane manufacture should be given the same opportunity to "grow." No, they don't want to ask for much. In fact, they are not asking for 50 years go catch up. They just want 10 years. Would you like to fly in their planes for the next 10 years?

Times are different. Newer schools should be held to today's standard. They cannot compare themselves to the infancy of established schools 30 years ago (where there probably weren't any standards). Newer schools have the ability to draw on the experiences of those who have come before them in this "offshore school industry." They really ought to meet CA (or at least NY) stanards from day one before openning their doors, because that's the current standard of a "good school."

P

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I'm not in complete disagreement with some of the things said here...but I crashed my laptop today...still don't have it running and so I'm ticked...irritated and frustrated to the point that my girlfriend left the house because of my vocalizations....so it's wiser if I delay responding. You techie types can smile. Those who only know where the key and gas go, like me, can relate.

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