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Old 12-05-2003, 08:15 AM
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Major revelation in St. Chris Investigation!!

Here is a section from the UK educational reform act of 1988 regarding the granting of degrees. If you pay attention to the section that I will make bold, it is clear that SC is not commiting an offence. Everyone who recieves a degree knows that is not from the UK, but rather from Senegal. The entire "debate" over whether or not the General Medical Council is going to investigate is really not an issue. They closed down Medical College of London, as MCL's own students were under the impression that they would recieve UK degrees. This is not the case for SC.



Quote:
Unrecognised degrees.

214.—(1) Any person who, in the course of business, grants, offers to grant or issues any invitation relating to any award—
(a) which may reasonably be taken to be an award granted or to be granted by a United Kingdom institution; and
(b) which either—


(i) is described as a degree; or


(ii) purports to confer on its holder the right to the title of bachelor, master or doctor and may reasonably be taken to be a degree;

shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.
(2) Subsection (1) above does not apply as respects anything done in relation to any recognised award; and for the purposes of this section a "recognised award" means—
(a) any award granted or to be granted by a university, college or other body which is authorised by Royal Charter or Act of Parliament to grant degrees;
(b) any award granted or to be granted by any body for the time being permitted by any body falling within paragraph (a) above to act on its behalf in the granting of degrees; or
(c) such other award as the Secretary of State may by order designate as a recognised award for the purposes of this section.
(3) An order under subsection (2)(c) above may designate as a recognised award either—
(a) a specified award granted or to be granted by a person named in the order; or
(b) any award granted or to be granted by such a person.
(4) Where in any proceedings for an offence under this section it is shown—
(a) that the defendant granted, offered to grant or issued an invitation relating to an award; and
(b) that an address in the United Kingdom was given in any document issued by the defendant certifying the granting of the award or containing the offer or invitation in question;
the award shall be presumed to fall within subsection (1)(a) above unless it is shown that the defendant took reasonable steps to inform the person to whom the award was granted or any member of the public or particular individual to whom the offer or invitation was addressed that the award was not granted or to be granted by a United Kingdom institution.

(5) In any proceedings for an offence under this section it shall be a defence for the defendant to show—
(a) that the award in question was granted or to be granted by virtue of authority conferred on or before 5th July 1988 by a foreign institution on the body granting the award; and
(b) that the defendant took reasonable steps to inform the person to whom the award was granted or any member of the public or particular individual to whom the offer was addressed that the award was granted or was to be granted by virtue of authority conferred by a foreign institution.
(6) For the purposes of subsection (5) above, where—
(a) on or before 5th July 1988 authority was conferred by a foreign institution on a body to grant awards of any description for a period expiring after that date; and
(b) new authority is conferred by the institution (whether before or after the expiry of that period) on the body to grant awards of that description;
the new authority shall be taken to have been granted on or before that date.

(7) Where an offence under this section which has been committed by a body corporate is proved to have been committed with the consent and connivance of, or to be attributable to any neglect on the part of, any director, manager, secretary or other similar officer of the body corporate, or any person who was purporting to act in any such capacity, he as well as the body corporate shall be guilty of that offence and shall be liable to be proceeded against and punished accordingly.

(8) Proceedings for an offence under this section shall not, in England and Wales, be instituted except by or on behalf of a local weights and measures authority or the chief officer of police for a police area.

(9) Nothing in this section shall apply in relation to the granting of an award to a candidate who—
(a) before 12th May 1988 began to undertake a course of education approved by the person granting the award in preparation for an examination to qualify for the award; and
(b) whether before or after that date, passes the examination;
and in this subsection "examination" includes any form of assessment and the reference to passing an examination shall be construed accordingly.

(10) For the purposes of this section—
(a) a "United Kingdom institution" means any institution established in the United Kingdom, other than one which is, or is affiliated to or forms part of, an institution whose principal establishment is situated outside the United Kingdom;
(b) a "foreign institution" means any institution other than a United Kingdom institution; and
(c) the reference to issuing an invitation relating to any award includes in particular the issuing of any circular, prospectus or advertisement relating to an award, whether addressed to the public generally, to any section of the public, or to any particular individual or individuals.

In section "b" There are 2 points: First the degree does not have England on it anywhere. Second, resonable steps are taken to insure that everyone is aware it is not a UK degree, and we are not a UK institution.

jdmd73
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Old 12-05-2003, 05:20 PM
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Thanks

Thanks for the good news.
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BillSal

"May the force be with you"
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Old 12-09-2003, 12:51 AM
MK MK is offline
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so then...

what exactly does that mean...if we attend SC..our degree is coming from Senegal? Is that going to effect coming back to the US for clinicals in any way? I mean, a foreign degree is a foreign degree..right?
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Old 12-09-2003, 01:01 AM
azskeptic's Avatar
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so then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MK
what exactly does that mean...if we attend SC..our degree is coming from Senegal? Is that going to effect coming back to the US for clinicals in any way? I mean, a foreign degree is a foreign degree..right?
The discussion has been about that St. Chris's WHO recognition is from Senegal but the medical school is in Luton. Some (perhaps many) states require that you be eligible for licensing where you graduate from. GMC,the English licensing bureau,is studying whether they will license St. Chris grads. Increasingly, St. Chris interested people are finding states that won't allow St. Chris grads to license or do residencies.

Foreign degrees are not all the same..go to the state medical board you are thinking of approaching when you are a graduate and see what they tell you about approaching them with a medical degree from Senegal earned in England. Approach the GMC and find out if they will license you in England.
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Old 12-09-2003, 01:26 AM
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so then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by azskeptic
Increasingly, St. Chris interested people are finding states that won't allow St. Chris grads to license or do residencies.
i just wanted to say that this is a pretty big assumption made on your part and probably a mistatement. if i remember correctly, ur one of the ppl who got all over st chris for claiming to be able to get licensed in 48 states when it hasn't been determined yet coz no one from st chris applied in some states. well the same argument can be made about ur statement.

there is a huge difference between being denied permission to become licensed and not having permission coz it hasn't been requested yet. most states that ur talking about have simply said that this can only be determined when the formal request is made. they're not saying that st chris grads cant get licensed there.

but i also recognize that some very strict states like cal have requirement that a state must first review a school before accepting a grads application. but the great majority (over 80% i think) dont have any laws or regulations at all restricting foreign grads (assuming of course they've completed the requirements like usmle, csa, etc.)

if the school closes down or something drastic like that than thats a different story. but graduating from st chris or most of the other school discussed around here will probably not present too many difficulties of practicing in most states (but few will be problems), regardless of how big of a stink u and the others want to make outta it.

of course the traditional non-fmg friendly states will always present problems for newer and smaller schools (bigger schools too but they usually have the resources to overcome the obstacles). if u have ur heart set on a particular state, than by all means try a different school. but if ur not picky about going to any particular state than whats the big deal?

peace
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Old 12-09-2003, 09:53 AM
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so then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by azskeptic
Increasingly, St. Chris interested people are finding states that won't allow St. Chris grads to license or do residencies.
i just wanted to say that this is a pretty big assumption made on your part and probably a mistatement. if i remember correctly, ur one of the ppl who got all over st chris for claiming to be able to get licensed in 48 states when it hasn't been determined yet coz no one from st chris applied in some states. well the same argument can be made about ur statement.

there is a huge difference between being denied permission to become licensed and not having permission coz it hasn't been requested yet. most states that ur talking about have simply said that this can only be determined when the formal request is made. they're not saying that st chris grads cant get licensed there.

but i also recognize that some very strict states like cal have requirement that a state must first review a school before accepting a grads application. but the great majority (over 80% i think) dont have any laws or regulations at all restricting foreign grads (assuming of course they've completed the requirements like usmle, csa, etc.)

if the school closes down or something drastic like that than thats a different story. but graduating from st chris or most of the other school discussed around here will probably not present too many difficulties of practicing in most states (but few will be problems), regardless of how big of a stink u and the others want to make outta it.

of course the traditional non-fmg friendly states will always present problems for newer and smaller schools (bigger schools too but they usually have the resources to overcome the obstacles). if u have ur heart set on a particular state, than by all means try a different school. but if ur not picky about going to any particular state than whats the big deal?

peace
Ok, Beaker, perhaps I can say it better "Since there have been few graduates of this program it is impossible to exactly say how many states they will have problems with. Indications are that NJ, Ga,Vermont,Ca, Tx, Nm, Ks will be problem states for them. In addition, since the GMC hasn't approved them for full licensure this may cause some problems for licensing in some other states. In addition, the problem of WHO recognition being at Senegal and not the UK may present problems."

az skeptic
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