Thread: Thinking of transferring, have some questions

Hello. I am thinking of transferring into the clinical segment at Spartan, and had some questions for current/past students:

1. Accreditation? I know Cali is out, and other states that follow CMB rules. But what about NY, FL, TX? What states is Spartan accredited in?

2. Can you do rotations in Canada? And what about licensure in Canada?

3. How is the clinical situation? I read about the NY approval, but I am assuming that is only for 12 weeks of rotations and not for anything longer? Where are majority of cores held and how is elective scheduling handled?

4. Any other important details/information that I need to know about the school?

I will also continue to search around for some answers, but wanted some first hand perspective regarding the school. Thanks to everyone who responds. Sorry if these questions have been answered elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Crane

I don’t agree with the way you are handling this unless you have unlimited financial resources and unlimited time to be a medical student. I do agree that it is the school’s responsibility to at least give you the paperwork you need to apply for a visa. I am still mystified by their refusal to do so.

However, I have some ideas: Spartan under the old owner was operating illegally on the US soil and was sued by the State of Texas. The new owners may be too afraid to be accused again of running an unaccredited school in the US. However, if this what they are afraid of, it’s completely baseless because operating clinical education in the US doesn’t make them a US school.

They should not operate a medical school based on fear if this is indeed what is going on in their heads. They should get competent people to be placed in the position of authority and they should inform themselves of what is right and what is wrong. Getting some legal help on these issues might be a good start.

Crane,
I do not have unlimited financial resources and unlimited time! Honestly, I would have loved to continue with Spartan, and have given my best to do so. Unfortunately, I was not getting anywhere with people at the New Mexico office. In fact, I learned far more from your correspondence about the entry requirement/VISA options than from my clinical coordinator. I did consider getting a legal opinion, but did not pursue this option, fearing that it may be too expensive and lengthy process. Moreover, I would not even know what type of lawyer to hire, in order to help me clear this mess. If there is a way that I can get a hold of someone from new management, and speak to them, perhaps that would be helpful. I have no reason to switch to a different school, and do basic medical sciences all over again. Lack of alternative has left me with no other choice.

Originally Posted by aki1

In fact, I just got accepted into AUC, and will be starting from the beginning, thanks to those liars at the New Mexico office. If they have been transparent from the beginning, I would not be in this position. Unfortunately, they have lied to me and many of my colleagues on numerous occasions. Once again, I have a tremendous amount of respect for faculty at Spartan, especially people like ..., and ... It truly is unfortunate that the new management has decided to keep those liars at the New Mexico office. To conclude, I would personally advise every Canadian national agains going there, unless they are willing to commit a felony and potentially spend up to 5 years in prison.

Regards,

You mean you start from MED1 again. Why don't you transfer to other schools that will issue you letters to do clinical rotations in the US. I read from the forum that U of Sint Eustatius accepts a lot of students into their clinical rotation classes.

Originally Posted by specialknyc

Okay... To dispell the ridiculous notion that SHSU is advising students to enter the country and complete rotations illegally I am posting on this topic. There are definitely canadians in the school and who have graduated, I have never heard of this problem before.
1. I am a SHSU student who had several Canadian students in my tri and in tris around me.
2. I know of at least one who is currently finishing up in Canada and many who are doing clerkships in the states (all legally I might add).
3. Although students may have to jump through certain hoops when leaving or entering a country for rotations, or entering residency in the us or Canada there have been MANY who have done this (again I stress legally) and are now practicing physicians and SHSU grads.
4. No student in any of the tris around me that I have seen had any issues regarding visa's or recieving proper documentation from the school.

I cannot explain the other users posts but I have never seen this or heard of any complaints or issues. I find myself doubting very much the authenticity of the posts, but everyone can make up their own mind. Either way I feel for him/her, but feel it is good that the dream is still being pursued.

Operating illegally ... NO (and yes). This is what I know ...SHSU was operating 100% LEGALLY in the us until the law was changed (I think this was around 30 years ago). They fought this while attempting to keep their students in the us, they failed and their us facility was closed. The students in that/those classes were able to finish their degrees in at. Lucia and practice medicine in the us. That said I have never heard of any issue like this (the school refusing to provide a letter- not doing so would be cutting your nose off to spite your face) from the old management and definitely not the new management. Regarding the new management, they are well respected in their fields and very serious about the school and ensuring things are done properly. That said I can garuntee that anyone (who works for the school) and advises students to break a law would not be working for the school anymore.

Specialknyc,

Thanks for your input. I have no doubt that there are many Canadian students studying at Spartan. Certainly, as you mentioned, some of them get to do their clinical rotations in Canada, and some choose to go to the USA. Unfortunately, in Canada, one can only do clinical electives as a foreign medical student, for certain amount of time in a given academic year. Hence, unless you have some serious connections, there is no way that you will get more than that in a given academic year. In my case, I wanted to do all of my clinical rotations in the USA, as I was hoping to attain medical residence in the USA as well.
As for the Canadians doing clinical training in the USA, do you in fact know that their entry was 100% legal. Have you ever seen a letter given by Spartan to those students, stating that they are medical students and will be entering USA in order to complete clinical rotations? Not many people will talk about those things, unless they re stuck in the same problem. I have known at least 2 students, during my stay on island, that got in trouble at the border. Sadly, I refused to believe in those stories, thinking that is just another propaganda plot against Spartan. But once you face it yourself, only then do you realize what type of mess you have put yourself into.
You mentioned the following: "Although students may have to jump through certain hoops when leaving or entering a country for rotations, or entering residency in the us or Canada". This is wrong! One should not be jumping through any hoops, much more break the laws of the USA. This is simply wrong, as one needs to be honest and transparent. What type of physician will I be, if my own career starts with lies and deceptions! I have told people at the New Mexico office that I do not mind paying any fee for proper documentation. All I asked for was a letter, that is all, and it was not given to me. If you happen to know anyone from new management, i would love to speak to them and explain my case. No sane person would throw away their basic medical sciences, only to repeat the entire thing. Thus far, I was not able to get anywhere by dealing with New Mexico office. I have called New York office, but never received a call back.
As for the new management, I have no doubt that those people are very well respected! Looking back at my basic medical sciences, I have nothing but respect for the vast majority of teaching stuff at Spartan. I would love nothing more but to continue and wrap up my clinical education in the USA. But with people such as those at New Mexico, this was impossible.
I apologize for posting individuals name, however, doing so, would certainly support my case, as I did not wish to be taken for someone who simply has nothing better to do except to spread lies about this school.
Once again, I would certainly welcome any input from you, pertaining to my situation!

Regards,

Originally Posted by MDtobeonhold

You mean you start from MED1 again. Why don't you transfer to other schools that will issue you letters to do clinical rotations in the US. I read from the forum that U of Sint Eustatius accepts a lot of students into their clinical rotation classes.

Interesting! I will certainly look into that.

Thanks for your input.

Originally Posted by aki1

Crane,
I do not have unlimited financial resources and unlimited time! Honestly, I would have loved to continue with Spartan, and have given my best to do so. Unfortunately, I was not getting anywhere with people at the New Mexico office. In fact, I learned far more from your correspondence about the entry requirement/VISA options than from my clinical coordinator. I did consider getting a legal opinion, but did not pursue this option, fearing that it may be too expensive and lengthy process. Moreover, I would not even know what type of lawyer to hire, in order to help me clear this mess. If there is a way that I can get a hold of someone from new management, and speak to them, perhaps that would be helpful. I have no reason to switch to a different school, and do basic medical sciences all over again. Lack of alternative has left me with no other choice.

I am starting to wonder about you. Honestly! You are willing to spend a ton of money and waste two years of life at AUC but are not willing to spend a few thousand to get legal help to sort this out for you and get you a visa?

I would contact a US immigration lawyer for specific help assuming everything you say is true.

By the way, by mentioning RV name, it doesn't prove that you have actually attended Spartan. The names of the faculty you mentioned are also on the website and anyone could use those names. If you call the NM office, even as a prospective student and have questions about clinicals, they refer you to RV.

Originally Posted by MDtobeonhold

You mean you start from MED1 again. Why don't you transfer to other schools that will issue you letters to do clinical rotations in the US. I read from the forum that U of Sint Eustatius accepts a lot of students into their clinical rotation classes.

Folks:

I hope this whole thing was not a made up ploy by Sint Eustatius to recruit students. That school has one foot in the grave and is plagued with financial and accreditation issues. Their marketing strategy as stated on their own forum is to go after the Canadians because they have access to loans while the US students don't.

With the upcoming shift in the political landscape in some former dutch islands, the survival of these schools and their ability to meet the stringent Dutch accreditation standards are questionable. The last thing you need is to go to a school that might be shut down in the future.

If you think the US immigration is a big hassle, try jump starting a medical career from a school that has been shut down.

This option is even crazier than repeating the last two years at a cost that is ten fold higher than Spartan. This whole discussion is beginning to make me wonder.

In 2006, you said the following on the Canadian IMG Forum:

Hello everyone,

I have finished my basic sciences in Caribbean, and was hoping to do my clinical rotations in Canada, following step1, as I am Canadian national. However, I would like to find out if that option is available for the Caribbean medical students, and would I still be able to do my residency in the US. In addition, would US/state specific licensing body approve my medical license if I do my clinical rotations in Canada? Finally, are we able to do core or electives or both, in Canada.

Thanks

Let me understand this: You finished basic sciences four years ago and you are just talking about this problem now?

Originally Posted by Crane

I am starting to wonder about you. Honestly! You are willing to spend a ton of money and waste two years of life at AUC but are not willing to spend a few thousand to get legal help to sort this out for you and get you a visa?

I would contact a US immigration lawyer for specific help assuming everything you say is true.

By the way, by mentioning RV name, it doesn't prove that you have actually attended Spartan. The names of the faculty you mentioned are also on the website and anyone could use those names. If you call the NM office, even as a prospective student and have questions about clinicals, they refer you to RV.

I am not quite sure as to why do you take so personally? I have simply stated my experience and welcome you to speak to RV and find out for yourself. I assume that you have an affiliation with Spartan, and if so, why don't you make it your own personal task to clarify this matter, once and for all, since you spend considerable amount of time on your computer defending RV and New Mexico office. As for me not attending Spartan, this is simply ridiculous. Do you assume that I simply woke up one day, and decided to make the entire thing up? As for mentioning RV by his name, it certainly adds credibility to it. How would I know about RV and his location at the New Mexico office, unless I went to school itself. It has been a while since I've been at Spartan web page, but from what I remember, I don't think that there is even mention of him at their web site. Nonetheless, I will no longer engage into this useless discussion. I did not offend anyone, and stand behind every comment I made thus far, especially regarding RV. But to be called part of St. Eustatia conspiracy, people please. I know that many of you have great imagination, but this is beyond ridiculous! Finally, to conclude, if you are a Canadian national, make sure that you have everything in writing, especially from clinical coordinator, before you find yourself in the same type of mess!

Regards everyone and best of luck in your future endeavors!

I am not affiliated with the school and take nothing personally. The reason I responded to you and for awhile took you seriously was because I was interested in what you had to say. I started changing my views about you when I came across old posts by you dating back to 2006. I posted one of your old questions form 2006 for people to see and make their own judgment about the creditability of your statements.

These forums are of full of impersonators trying to steal students from this or that school. I try to post information so people can read and decide for themselves.

I don't know who you are and what your motives are. But it is reasonable to ask why would someone who has supposedly finished basic sciences four years ago would show up here with an incredible story which ends with transferring to a more expensive school and starting all over again.

Frankly, I don't know who RV is other than that he is the school's clinical coordinator. I have spoken with him a few time over the phone to find out about the school's clinicals. Truth be told, I didn't care for the guy as I found him IMO somewhat shifty and not someone I would readily trust.

That being said, the question still remains: what are you doing here four years later? What have you been doing sine 2006? Your post in very general and lacks any specific time lines.

About SUSM, it's no secret that they are all over these forums to get people to transfer into their clinicals. Whether you are affiliated with them or not, I don't care. I do find the practice of stealing students somewhat disgusting no matter who is doing and what their motives are. Nothing personal!

Okay... On my laptop now and need to post some information to dispel the posts that by all appearances are fabricated (IMO) To dismiss the ridiculous notion that SHSU is advising students to enter the country and complete rotations illegally I am posting on this topic. There are definitely Canadians in the school and many who have graduated, I have never heard of this problem before (neither has any student I speak with).

A few points:
1. I am a SHSU student (in my final year) who had several Canadian students in my tris around me. I would also add that I have personally had no issues and the school has been nothing but helpful and straightforward (that has been my experience).
2. I know of at least one who is currently finishing up in Canada and many who are doing clerkships in the states (all legally I might add).
3. Although students may have to jump through certain hoops when leaving or entering a country for rotations, or entering residency in the US or Canada there have been MANY who have done this (again I stress legally and without any issues) and are now practicing physicians and SHSU grads.
4. No student in any of the tris around me that I have seen or spoken to, nor any graduates that I have spoken with had any issues regarding visa's or receiving proper documentation from the school. That said SHSU is a school based out of Saint Lucia (not the United States), When part of the school (i.e. an actual student) they can provide a letter that you are attending their university, however letters that you are completing a rotation very often come from the hospital(s) where students rotate (since they are in the US).
5. As far as I am aware SHSU is the only school (excluding the big ones) with graduates who have passed the Canadian exams and are doing their residency. There are many SHSU graduates practicing in Canada. All of whom I imagine had to do some leg word to deal with homeland security and immigration when completing rotations in the US.
6. There are *impersonators* placed on these boards to attack other schools and allege things that are pure fabrications – this is a fact. These impersonators are very often students or even people associated with schools. It is terrible when things are fabricated and posted in an attempt to mislead students about any school. In my opinion the *story* of the SHSU (supposed) student is pure fabrication- each person can come to their own conclusion. I have never heard of any issue from any current student, nor have I heard of any issue from any past student who I have come across or spoken with. .
7. Since SHSU is in St. Lucia (not in the US), the question of I-20 or F-1 visas are a non issue. The school helps every student obtain visas from the St. Lucian government when they attend SHSU. When in the US, students may have to also obtain letters from the school stating that they attend the University and from hospitals in which they rotate.
8. The new management has gone to great lengths to improve the school and is pursuing every avenue to provide its students with every opportunity to excel and become practicing physicians. The program curriculum is extensive as is their USMLE review. I have posted on this numerous times.

To sum up the main points – actual SHSU students do not have any issues with the University regarding the pursuit of their medical degrees in the US or in Canada (as many graduates prove this) from my experiences and the experiences of students and graduates I have spoken (some who graduated about a decade ago). The school in no instance will ever advise students to break any laws (that allegation is ridiculous and frankly unbelievable since it would behoove the University to have students enter legally thereby avoiding and issue themselves), the school will do everything within its power to help students, rotations can be done in Canada as permitted by their rules and regulations, and rotations can be done in the US according to their rules and regulations allowing students to graduate medical school and pursue medical licensure.