Thread: Can't recommend this school as a recent grad...

I thought I'd come on here and give people some of my opinions - I am a recent 5th semester grad. This is going to be a really long post but hopefully it will give future applicants something real to base their decision on. If you want more info, please feel free to PM me. The basic summary: Don't go to Saba, go somewhere else even if it costs more.

In my 1st or 2nd semester, I would have still told my friends or colleagues to come to Saba, but now I can't do that anymore. This school has gone overboard in terms of failing and cutting people out. Now I know that people will just call me a whiner or tell me that those students can't handle it or w/e, but I just don't think that's the case anymore. I was fortunate to make it through all 5 semesters without a hiccup...wasn't even close to failing anything ever. But when I hear about the exams and class averages of the semesters below me, it is definitely a concern. I don't know that I'd even make it through anymore with the way it is now...I'll give some reasons about why I'm not a fan of this school anymore:

Students are failing courses like micro because they end up with 74.x - yes, technically there has to be a cutoff, but what I don't get is if these students could pass with an 85 or 90 on the presentation in micro, why not give it to them so they can pass? But nope, this school won't do something like that. They'd rather fail the kids - and at least for us and the semester below the presentation grades wouldn't even get posted until after shelf grades are back so it would be easy to adjust the presentations and let people pass.

Still on micro...Dr. J that teaches bacteria - my goodness I can't believe they allow him to teach. He's never had a class avg above 80 on his block in 3 semesters. He can't teach and he can't write questions. What's worse is that now the virus guy is gone too so this clown might teach more of that which is just bad news for students. But there's no accountability for him...when students get below 75, they fail - when profs write exams that have averages below 75 it's apparently the students' fault.

There seem to be more and more class averages that are in the high 60 or low 70 range. I'm sorry, but when that happens either the prof can't each or their exam was too hard. Class averages should never be that low because the students simply aren't that dumb. The only time that an average like that might be acceptable is in the beginning of 1st semester when you still have people here that shouldn't be and when people haven't learned that you actually have to study in medical school.

Next semester the 3rds will be going 8-5 until June...why!? 3rd semester is really rough - IMO the hardest semester that there is, now you keep them in school for longer and take away their study/relaxation time? The school had it right when it moved ethics to 1st block and had psyc blocks 2-5 so now it just reverted so both classes stretch the whole semester. And they throw in an extra micro lab on Tuesdays just to boot...what a useless waste of time.

One more thing I don't understand is why low yield courses are so hard here now. Histo used to be a joke when I took it, but apparently now they claim that it's important for path so they've clamped down on it a lot. What a load of garbage...you learn the histo that you need to learn in path. I've had something like 20 pure histo questions out of 2000 on my qbank. Same thing goes for genetics - there's no reason why 10+ people out of a class of 70 should be failing a course like that...but they do because it's unnecessarily hard. Histo had a few class averages in the 60s and low 70s this semester and a bunch of people failed/dropped genetics - I guess it's life, but I don't like it. Our class had 7 people fail histo with no one dropping and 4 people fail genetics with no one dropping - those are much more acceptable numbers.

Then we get to the exit...so for the last few semesters the raw score needed to pass has been a 65. Last semester it was 66 but then was brought down to a 65. This semester...boom we're up to 68! And according to Dean L, it's staying at 68. The worst part of it all is that one person actually got a 65 and would have passed in any other semester, but they failed the person this semester. I couldn't believe that...you can't just let the person pass and start your new rules next semester? Nope, that would be too nice of them. Though I will point out that from the info we received, that decision was made by the higher powers in Devens, not by anyone on the island. Regardless, I guess it shows you how much the leadership of the school cares.

While I'm at it...the research paper - so they want us to do a research paper...ok, fine - but they won't even give us proper access to articles so we can get the appropriate information we need to complete it. Instead we're stuck bugging the librarian or our friends who go to universities with proper access to articles to get what we need.

Our class was lucky...we graduated with 78 people. I think the new 5ths are down below 50 now. The new 4ths can't have more than 60 I'd imagine. The new 3rds...well who knows - from what I heard, 20+ of them are leaving the school and a bunch more failed something in 2nd. What's the point of those numbers? Over 50% of people will either fail out or leave - and I'm not counting people who just fail one course and still make it through. If that was in 1st semester, I'd chalk it up to people coming to the school that should have never been there, but it seems more and more like people are failing after getting by 1st no problem.


There are many more things that I could add to the list, but they've escaped my mind for now. Like I mentioned at the start, do yourself a favor...go somewhere else for medical school until Saba gets its act together and goes back to being the tough but fair school that it once was.

Originally Posted by sabastudent123456

I thought I'd come on here and give people some of my opinions - I am a recent 5th semester grad. This is going to be a really long post but hopefully it will give future applicants something real to base their decision on. If you want more info, please feel free to PM me. The basic summary: Don't go to Saba, go somewhere else even if it costs more.

In my 1st or 2nd semester, I would have still told my friends or colleagues to come to Saba, but now I can't do that anymore. This school has gone overboard in terms of failing and cutting people out. Now I know that people will just call me a whiner or tell me that those students can't handle it or w/e, but I just don't think that's the case anymore. I was fortunate to make it through all 5 semesters without a hiccup...wasn't even close to failing anything ever. But when I hear about the exams and class averages of the semesters below me, it is definitely a concern. I don't know that I'd even make it through anymore with the way it is now...I'll give some reasons about why I'm not a fan of this school anymore:

Students are failing courses like micro because they end up with 74.x - yes, technically there has to be a cutoff, but what I don't get is if these students could pass with an 85 or 90 on the presentation in micro, why not give it to them so they can pass? But nope, this school won't do something like that. They'd rather fail the kids - and at least for us and the semester below the presentation grades wouldn't even get posted until after shelf grades are back so it would be easy to adjust the presentations and let people pass.

Still on micro...Dr. J that teaches bacteria - my goodness I can't believe they allow him to teach. He's never had a class avg above 80 on his block in 3 semesters. He can't teach and he can't write questions. What's worse is that now the virus guy is gone too so this clown might teach more of that which is just bad news for students. But there's no accountability for him...when students get below 75, they fail - when profs write exams that have averages below 75 it's apparently the students' fault.

There seem to be more and more class averages that are in the high 60 or low 70 range. I'm sorry, but when that happens either the prof can't each or their exam was too hard. Class averages should never be that low because the students simply aren't that dumb. The only time that an average like that might be acceptable is in the beginning of 1st semester when you still have people here that shouldn't be and when people haven't learned that you actually have to study in medical school.

Next semester the 3rds will be going 8-5 until June...why!? 3rd semester is really rough - IMO the hardest semester that there is, now you keep them in school for longer and take away their study/relaxation time? The school had it right when it moved ethics to 1st block and had psyc blocks 2-5 so now it just reverted so both classes stretch the whole semester. And they throw in an extra micro lab on Tuesdays just to boot...what a useless waste of time.

One more thing I don't understand is why low yield courses are so hard here now. Histo used to be a joke when I took it, but apparently now they claim that it's important for path so they've clamped down on it a lot. What a load of garbage...you learn the histo that you need to learn in path. I've had something like 20 pure histo questions out of 2000 on my qbank. Same thing goes for genetics - there's no reason why 10+ people out of a class of 70 should be failing a course like that...but they do because it's unnecessarily hard. Histo had a few class averages in the 60s and low 70s this semester and a bunch of people failed/dropped genetics - I guess it's life, but I don't like it. Our class had 7 people fail histo with no one dropping and 4 people fail genetics with no one dropping - those are much more acceptable numbers.

Then we get to the exit...so for the last few semesters the raw score needed to pass has been a 65. Last semester it was 66 but then was brought down to a 65. This semester...boom we're up to 68! And according to Dean L, it's staying at 68. The worst part of it all is that one person actually got a 65 and would have passed in any other semester, but they failed the person this semester. I couldn't believe that...you can't just let the person pass and start your new rules next semester? Nope, that would be too nice of them. Though I will point out that from the info we received, that decision was made by the higher powers in Devens, not by anyone on the island. Regardless, I guess it shows you how much the leadership of the school cares.

While I'm at it...the research paper - so they want us to do a research paper...ok, fine - but they won't even give us proper access to articles so we can get the appropriate information we need to complete it. Instead we're stuck bugging the librarian or our friends who go to universities with proper access to articles to get what we need.

Our class was lucky...we graduated with 78 people. I think the new 5ths are down below 50 now. The new 4ths can't have more than 60 I'd imagine. The new 3rds...well who knows - from what I heard, 20+ of them are leaving the school and a bunch more failed something in 2nd. What's the point of those numbers? Over 50% of people will either fail out or leave - and I'm not counting people who just fail one course and still make it through. If that was in 1st semester, I'd chalk it up to people coming to the school that should have never been there, but it seems more and more like people are failing after getting by 1st no problem.


There are many more things that I could add to the list, but they've escaped my mind for now. Like I mentioned at the start, do yourself a favor...go somewhere else for medical school until Saba gets its act together and goes back to being the tough but fair school that it once was.

wise words indeed

Nice post sabastudent123456,

I’m a prospective student for fall 2012 and SABA is #1 on my list, AUA #2 , ROSS #3 and SGU #4, MUA #5, SMU #6, for many reasons including class size, quality of the installations, tuitions, drop out rate and the administration.

Actually, I’d rather go to SABA than SGU or AUA for many reasons. I heard about the weed out and the drop out rate at SABA. I heard also a lot of good stuffs about this school.

Thank you for your input. If you have more to say please post.

The professors and administration are still largely the same as they were 5 semesters ago. I find it difficult to believe they all radically changed the way they teach or manage classes. I am assuming there was no change in admissions practices and the quality of each entering class.

It is far more likely that nothing actually changed. Students didn't all of a sudden start doing badly. The recent 5th semester class is just an anomaly; unusual for its high number of achieving students that made it through the pipeline. So other things look bad in comparison, but are in fact normal. Low averages and attrition are par for the course.

A caveat needs to be mentioned about the exit exam. I believe the one person who failed it has also failed other courses before. Getting a score 65 is equivalent to a barely passing 188. It may be in their best interest to stay and study more. So, is the administration being "unfair" by raising the pass from 65 to 68? Maybe. Are they doing this person a favor? Probably.

#1 These threads come up continuously over and over again. It's a challenging program, and people fail. I read the same horror stories before I started at Saba ~3-4 years ago about how it was a "different school now" and "they want you to fail". If you're a strong student then you will be fine. Even if they had a mission to 'fail' people, the people they are trying to fail are the bottom students. So just make sure you are in the top 50% and you'll be fine.

#2 If you are doing so poorly on the exit exam that you have to worry about getting a 65 or a 68, you aren't going to match to even the worst primary care residency in the states as an IMG/FMG. The exit exam is pretty reliable so if you're predicted to get a score in the 180s on Step 1, your app will get thrown in the garbage by almost every residency program. There used to be 6000 surplus residency positions every year in the US. By 2015 that is supposed to be 0.

I think the changes in student performance reflect several things:

1) New teachers = new tests. All the documents and reviews that upper semesters pass down are no longer relevant when there is a new exam. People need to start figuring out that professor's testing style from scratch. Dr. J is a perfect example of this. I agree, his tests completely lack a clinically relevant focus, but as someone who passed block 3 with a B before the curve, I tell you it is doable, IF YOU STUDY. So many people are looking for short cuts and review files instead of putting the time in. With a new prof/new exam, you must put the time in, and many people in my class still tried to use the short cuts on that exam and paid for it with bad grades.

2) I'll go ahead and address the pink elephant in the room. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CHEATING. We all know it, and admin knows it. Admin is cracking down on it, and all the exams are getting re-written. Of course the class averages are going down. All the stuff that people used to cheat with (and some of the legitimate reviews people study from) is now worthless. I would love to see how the exam distributions have changed as well. I remember back in genetics we had a ridiculous bimodal test that was A's and F's, and it was because there was a group of people with a cheat, and the rest of the class studied the right way. Those of us who put the effort in and failed because it was a hard test, received no curve because the average was an 86, due to the high A's of those with cheats. There was the possibility of cheating on our pharm shelf this past semester, and when we showed up day of the exam, we were slapped with a surprise cumulative written by Dr. M and Dr. B instead. Our average was abysmal, but obviously no one cheated.

3) I think admissions might be getting lax. The calibur of incoming student is declining, as evidenced by the larger number of American students being accepted. Let's face it, most of the American students have applications with stats well below the Canadians (as an American with terrible stats, I have no problem saying this. Admissions was definitely lax when they admitted me). I would postulate that the greater the number of American students in a class, the more likely it will be that that class will have low test averages, simply because the students that comprise the class are less capable than other groups. Again, there are exceptions to everything, this is not a rule, but overall, it seems like the quality of the incoming students is declining. I had this exact conversation with Dr. G. (one of the biochem guys), who cannot fathom why the class is struggling with questions that are the same difficulty as the have always been. HOWEVER, I wonder if this might be due to the addition of DPR to the curriculum, which is causing the lower semesters to stay later and thus have less study time. Unfortunately, this provides no explanation for the attrition in my class since we are pre-DPR, and still had a ridiculous attrition.

Just my opinions. Again, as long as incoming students are AWARE of what they will be up against in coming to Saba, I see no problem with the school making things harder on us so we are less likely to fail Step 1, and so that the school becomes more competitive/better respected with time.

Although I have to agree with the OP on the exit exam situation from the standpoint that it is COMPLETELY unfair to change the pass rate for an exam AFTER students have written it. I feel terrible for that student that was told they passed and then finds out 2 days later that they are repeating. Ridiculous.

Originally Posted by maladdy85

Although I have to agree with the OP on the exit exam situation from the standpoint that it is COMPLETELY unfair to change the pass rate for an exam AFTER students have written it. I feel terrible for that student that was told they passed and then finds out 2 days later that they are repeating. Ridiculous.

When the course director told the student they passed, it was from knowledge of the past trend, without having gotten final word from the US office... which always sets the pass rate after the exam is done.. It may have been held constant for the last few semesters, but there was never a guarantee that it wouldn't change.

Originally Posted by Intrepid1

When the course director told the student they passed, it was from knowledge of the past trend, without having gotten final word from the US office... which always sets the pass rate after the exam is done.. It may have been held constant for the last few semesters, but there was never a guarantee that it wouldn't change.

Explained like that, it makes sense the passing note may increase, even after the test was taken. Since all the decisions are not made locally it explains that kind of situation.

That’s good to know!

I would recommend Saba because of the same reasons listed above. As a student I would want to know ASAP if my chances for matching into any residency is possible. So that I can reassess my plans and save myself from anymore wasted time and money. The residency match is getting more difficult and you really need to be better than the average US student. And Saba does a great job of finding these students.

I had a sub 2.5 undergrad GPA. And I chose Saba over the other big 4 carib schools b/c of their difficult curriculum and affordability. I tend to do the bare minimum and it was no different in medical school. I would cheat or take short cuts(study from recycled/previous tests) and I would study just enough to stay within the average. I know for a fact if I went to another school where cheating is more rampant or the passing standards are lower, I would have done less, and probably failed my Step 1. But being an average Saba student, I was surprised to have received my passing USMLE Step 1 score in the 250s.

I figured I post a more positive view of Saba curriculum. There's a lot of students who succeed but you dont' see much positivity in these forums. The success stories come off as bragging and so they refrain from posting. And the successful students are too busy ... winning... to bother posting in these forums.


EDITED: reducing cheating by making new exams is only a benefit to the students. I would man's best friend and complain too, but in the end, it's a good thing.