Thread: SABA is a disgrace

I am a new admitted student to SABA for this coming Fall semester. However, I cant help but feel dismayed by what SABA does.

Firstly, I reveiced email about an online chat with SABA financial aid officer today from 7-8pm EST. However, after I logged in I found nobody!!! Has anyone chat with their financial officer today?

Then, SABA suddenly increased the tuition for fall term. But they dont even bother to let me know. I never received emails from SABA abt the tuition increase. And I was never aware of the increase of tuition before I was admitted. Disgrace.

Now most importantly, I am so upset with SABA from what I found. After thorough research on this forum, I found out from upperclass that out of 110 admitted students, only 40-45 will make it to the 5th semester on time!!! This is about 65% attrition. (you can use search and find yourself) I know Ross, which is infamous for its attrition rate, is trying to solve it by decreasing the newly admitted students from 650 to less then 400 per semester. And Ross is also trying to setup new clinical spots, such as Norwegian American Hospital in Chicago and St. Joseph Mercy Hospital Oakland (SJMO) in Pontiac, MI. Thus the attrition will drop significantly if I am not wrong. Lets look at SABA, it has done nothing. I never heard any attempts to setup new clinial spots. So out of big 4, SABA is the school that weed out students (even good and hard working ones). And the strange part is, I dont find a lot of post on SABA forum complain abt this but plenty on ROSS forum bashing Ross.
Now I am so confused abt whether to attend SABA. Coz I know only 40% I can graduate. After investing at least 150K, I dont even stand 50% chance of getiing the MD. SAD!!!

I am contacting AUC now. Hopefully it is not too late for their fall term. Shame on you SABA. There will never be big 4, only big 3.

Originally Posted by seattle

But one can argue the other way around as well (which no one seems to very often) - which is what can we say about those individuals who come to the Caribbean to teach? Why Caribbean? Catch my drift....they also have flaws in their backgrounds and to some extent have frustrations in life and have an ax to grind. It's not out of the question - so not everything Kewlwhip has said should be written off as an "idiot" who couldn't make it. I have yet to see anyone who has blown away the competition in clinicals or residency that came from the stellar bootcamp that Saba portrays (as some have erroneously claimed). wink...wink

I've seen a quite a few Saba students who blow away the competition. We honestly work harder than the Ross/MUA counterparts that I've worked with.

Originally Posted by Evereadyclassic

I've seen a quite a few Saba students who blow away the competition. We honestly work harder than the Ross/MUA counterparts that I've worked with.

As I scan these forums, the main criticism I have is how loosely the issue of Saba students "blow away the competition" in clinicals is used. I have been associated with this particular school since the mid-1990s and over the past 18 years the school has developed an almost algorithmic strategy of how to filter the outgoing student population to those that will with high probability pass the Step 1 with high scores. That is a proven fact. So, yes we do have "capable" students out there in clinicals.

However, when we loosely throw this issue of "blow away the competition", to which sub-population are we comparing? (other Caribbean students and/or U.S. students)? If the argument is as a whole the majority of Saba students outperform other Caribbean programs in clinicals...well that is a bit more believable based on the selection criteria used to filter the outgoing population from the island. BUT, I can see how students from other extremely competitive schools such as SGU may have an issue with this general conclusion.

And I certainly, would not by and large extend this argument to compare with U.S. students. Remember, other than those that wish to obtain an extremely competitive residency program, the U.S. students are "viewed" on a different scale subliminally than the IMGs. It is never stated so outright, but it is a well known underpinning to the overall system. IMGs as you all know have to work much harder to "prove" themselves - something the U.S. student does not need to do excluding aforementioned exceptions and hence we do not have a "true" baseline measure against this subpopulation. In other words, there is a rather skewed "appearance" of over-performance on part of a Saba student in some cases compared to the U.S. students who do not need to prove themselves to the extent that you do. (I have received this feedback from numerous individuals in clinicals on private messages).

Similarly, we need to be careful in how shelf exam scores are being viewed. These scores can only be used accurately IF used to assess an individual's performance against those in your class and other Caribbean schools. What this exam does not measure accurately is IF used against the general U.S. student population because most U.S. school do not mandate this as a part of their student grade. Hence, U.S. med students use it more or less as a learning experince and not as a fear factor towards a grade - meaning who knows the effort that goes into the exam. So, if Saba admin is in fact using the shelf as a comparison against U.S. students, then I would caution the school in doing so since the predictor variables used in fitting a regression line is so skewed with large error variances that it truly renders the conclusions baseless to say the least.

Originally Posted by seattle

As I scan these forums, the main criticism I have is how loosely the issue of Saba students "blow away the competition" in clinicals is used. I have been associated with this particular school since the mid-1990s and over the past 18 years the school has developed an almost algorithmic strategy of how to filter the outgoing student population to those that will with high probability pass the Step 1 with high scores. That is a proven fact. So, yes we do have "capable" students out there in clinicals.

However, when we loosely throw this issue of "blow away the competition", to which sub-population are we comparing? (other Caribbean students and/or U.S. students)? If the argument is as a whole the majority of Saba students outperform other Caribbean programs in clinicals...well that is a bit more believable based on the selection criteria used to filter the outgoing population from the island. BUT, I can see how students from other extremely competitive schools such as SGU may have an issue with this general conclusion.

And I certainly, would not by and large extend this argument to compare with U.S. students. Remember, other than those that wish to obtain an extremely competitive residency program, the U.S. students are "viewed" on a different scale subliminally than the IMGs. It is never stated so outright, but it is a well known underpinning to the overall system. IMGs as you all know have to work much harder to "prove" themselves - something the U.S. student does not need to do excluding aforementioned exceptions and hence we do not have a "true" baseline measure against this subpopulation. In other words, there is a rather skewed "appearance" of over-performance on part of a Saba student in some cases compared to the U.S. students who do not need to prove themselves to the extent that you do. (I have received this feedback from numerous individuals in clinicals on private messages).

Similarly, we need to be careful in how shelf exam scores are being viewed. These scores can only be used accurately IF used to assess an individual's performance against those in your class and other Caribbean schools. What this exam does not measure accurately is IF used against the general U.S. student population because most U.S. school do not mandate this as a part of their student grade. Hence, U.S. med students use it more or less as a learning experince and not as a fear factor towards a grade - meaning who knows the effort that goes into the exam. So, if Saba admin is in fact using the shelf as a comparison against U.S. students, then I would caution the school in doing so since the predictor variables used in fitting a regression line is so skewed with large error variances that it truly renders the conclusions baseless to say the least.

How are you associated with the school again? For 15 years? Why did you only join this forum in 2009?

Anyway, I don't know how to diplomatically tell someone they're full of pooh pooh.

One thing you're right about, American students are absolutely measured on a different scale. Its lucky for them. Because whenever I've rotated with them, I've completely outshone them. There is no such thing as "over-perform", everything is for the patient and the more you can do the better. Its no secret, the feedback from attendings is completely transparent, the hard work is appreciated. Showing up early, staying late, working hard, being humble and just generally being pleasant to be around and work with gets rave reviews and attracts attention.

Nobody cares about shelf scores. Nobody even talks about them. No one uses them to compare us to other students from Caribbean or US schools. Our USMLE scores are stellar...

So who are you? How are you "associated" with Saba? Why are you posting on our board?

Originally Posted by Evereadyclassic

How are you associated with the school again? For 15 years? Why did you only join this forum in 2009?

I knew the original (one) of the individuals who was instrumental in beginning the medical school on Saba. This business plan went back as far as the late 1980s and came to fruition around 1993. I observed this forum and others for a long time prior to actually beginning to post in 2009 and soon thereafter was asked to serve as a moderator.

Anyway, I don't know how to diplomatically tell someone they're full of pooh pooh.

I am surprised that you got as far as you did in residency (assuming you are past clinicals) if you cannot apply some semblance of diplomacy. If you have not learned this by now, you might as well be told here - you will not always agree with others (at times you may be correct and at other times you may not)...but what you will need to get by in this world an especially in the field of medicine is a sense of diplomacy and constructive criticism. If that is lacking, it is not something to be proud of by stating how great you are on these forums. You will be brought down to reality very quickly by your seniors and it definitely does not go well with evaluations. Just a thought from someone who knows this game all to well over the years. Take it or leave it.

One thing you're right about, American students are absolutely measured on a different scale. Its lucky for them. Because whenever I've rotated with them, I've completely outshone them.

Lucky for them? You seem way over confident. If you are that good as you claim why go to the Caribbean in the first place? They never had to step foot on Caribbean soil for a reason. And yes, they are measured on a different scale FOR A REASON...wink, wink!

There is no such thing as "over-perform", everything is for the patient and the more you can do the better. Its no secret, the feedback from attendings is completely transparent, the hard work is appreciated. Showing up early, staying late, working hard, being humble and just generally being pleasant to be around and work with gets rave reviews and attracts attention.

Nobody cares about shelf scores. Nobody even talks about them. No one uses them to compare us to other students from Caribbean or US schools.

OK...but you have not added anything new in your previous comment that people do not know already.

Our USMLE scores are stellar...

NOT ALL! In general, with the filter in place Saba does create an outgoing pool that is well aligned to pass the Step 1 on the first attempt. Atlhough I would not extend that to say all individuals will do stellar on the Step 1. That is not the case and has never been.

Why are you posting on our board?

What aspect of the word "moderator" do you fail to understand? Who are you? You only have 26 posts since July, 2008 and NOW all of a sudden you are boasting this alleged claim to fame for the all too familiar "outshown the competition" comments that fills these Caribbean forums? If someone is that good...seriously why not have transferred to a U.S. school. Yes, spots are limited and it is very difficult to do so, but I have to ask...if the Step 1 score is that "stellar" (whatever that means)...would you not try to get into a U.S. school...at least try?

Originally Posted by seattle

I knew the original (one) of the individuals who was instrumental in beginning the medical school on Saba. This business plan went back as far as the late 1980s and came to fruition around 1993. I observed this forum and others for a long time prior to actually beginning to post in 2009 and soon thereafter was asked to serve as a moderator.



I am surprised that you got as far as you did in residency (assuming you are past clinicals) if you cannot apply some semblance of diplomacy. If you have not learned this by now, you might as well be told here - you will not always agree with others (at times you may be correct and at other times you may not)...but what you will need to get by in this world an especially in the field of medicine is a sense of diplomacy and constructive criticism. If that is lacking, it is not something to be proud of by stating how great you are on these forums. You will be brought down to reality very quickly by your seniors and it definitely does not go well with evaluations. Just a thought from someone who knows this game all to well over the years. Take it or leave it.




Lucky for them? You seem way over confident. If you are that good as you claim why go to the Caribbean in the first place? They never had to step foot on Caribbean soil for a reason. And yes, they are measured on a different scale FOR A REASON...wink, wink!



OK...but you have not added anything new in your previous comment that people do not know already.



NOT ALL! In general, with the filter in place Saba does create an outgoing pool that is well aligned to pass the Step 1 on the first attempt. Atlhough I would not extend that to say all individuals will do stellar on the Step 1. That is not the case and has never been.



Because I am the Saba forum moderator. Who are you? you only have 26 posts and all of a sudden you are now boasting this claim to fame?

Your identity is confined to Saba forum moderator? Does more posts make you more believable? I was kind of busy... you know with being a med student. Apparently, whatever your lifestyle is, it doesn't confine you to much work other than to troll forums.

I would advise people to chose carefully who they take advice from. Anonymous "moderators", or actual graduates and students.

Originally Posted by Evereadyclassic

Your identity is confined to Saba forum moderator? Does more posts make you more believable? I was kind of busy... you know with being a med student. Apparently, whatever your lifestyle is, it doesn't confine you to much work other than to troll forums.

I would advise people to chose carefully who they take advice from. Anonymous "moderators", or actual graduates and students.

Well, let me play Devil's advocate then...how does anyone know that you are not trolling these forums ?

Since you admit yourself above that you do not know who I am, maybe I advise in your infinite wisdom that you take a few minutes first and at the least make some effort to read thru the 400+ posts I have maintained over the past 3 years that clearly give more than ample evidence of my attending Saba and beyond before you (with 26 posts) begin to advice others to be careful who to take advice from on these forums.

So, maybe I could also say the same thing back yes?...that prospectives or others should be wary of someone jumping into a forum after being "kind of busy" all these years (which is nothing above and beyond than anyone else in the history of medicine) and claiming to now "outshine" the competition including U.S. medical students. Just a thought.....

Originally Posted by seattle

Well, let me play Devil's advocate then...how does anyone know that you are not trolling these forums ?

I advice you at least attempt to read thru some of the 400+ posts I have maintained over the past 3 years that clearly give more than ample evidence of my attending Saba and beyond before you (with 26 posts) begin to advice others to be careful who to take advice from on these forums.

Let me know when you get to Harvard Mass General with the "stellar" Step 1 score.

Wow... again, who are you? other than someone with 400 posts? You're a moderator right? That's a very illustrious title... I'm sure you're proud.

I doubt I'll read through your other posts given the quality of the ones I've ready so far. I bet you attended and failed right out of Saba. My appologies, you must be very bitter.

Originally Posted by Evereadyclassic

Wow... again, who are you? other than someone with 400 posts? You're a moderator right? That's a very illustrious title... I'm sure you're proud.

I doubt I'll read through your other posts given the quality of the ones I've ready so far. I bet you attended and failed right out of Saba. My appologies, you must be very bitter.

Hahaha....looks like the Moderator really got to you! Somebody got their feathers ruffled today...you're that busy as a med student yet have the time to keep posting multiple times on here. LOL...go back to your amazing claim to fame and leave the forum alone. Or maybe you'll have time to reply again here....yeah you're really busy as a med student.

Originally Posted by Evereadyclassic

Wow... again, who are you? other than someone with 400 posts? You're a moderator right? That's a very illustrious title... I'm sure you're proud.

I doubt I'll read through your other posts given the quality of the ones I've ready so far. I bet you attended and failed right out of Saba. My appologies, you must be very bitter.

IMO, Seattle's post are almost always, helpful, informative, and rational. Perhaps you should read them before prematurely bashing one of the better contributors to this site. There are so few posters here that offer worthwhile information to current/incoming/prospective students. Keeping this in mind, please take the time to thoroughly research before drawing the conclusion to slander someone who does not deserve it.

Originally Posted by maladdy85

IMO, Seattle's post are almost always, helpful, informative, and rational. Perhaps you should read them before prematurely bashing one of the better contributors to this site. There are so few posters here that offer worthwhile information to current/incoming/prospective students. Keeping this in mind, please take the time to thoroughly research before drawing the conclusion to slander someone who does not deserve it.

Well played my friend....Did I ever mention I am your biggest fan