Thread: Saba!..MAYBE NOT

My rant can lead to an ugly debate..but I am in a sticky mess so I must ask..

I m currently in my final semester completing a Hon Bsc at UofT. Science GPA will be 3.6. Current years gpa is 4.0.If I actually study very well in the summer and take the mcat..I know I can get 33+ easily..based on practice tests.
I have been accepted to ROSS AND SABA for fall 2010,but Iam not even considering Ross because SABA is better for canadians, so I’ve heard.
Yes I was ecstatic that I got into Saba for sept 2010...but after learning how hard this years match was and how it will only deteriorate till 2014..I started having second thoughts...Even people with good scores/stats/LORs had to struggle to match and some did not even match and had to scramble..even with good stats...stats that would have worked a few years ago... even from a caribbean school. and icing on the cake is that we know matching back in Canada is even more harder.

Yes I know there were some exceptions..such as plastic surgery at UofTetc..but these are rare...simply knowing that there was no plastic surgery EVER before this should be sufficient to understand how rare.

My ultimate goal is to match into family medicine/Internal medicine at the University of Toronto..no where else. Yes its specific I know, but I want to come straight home (toronto,ON) after 4 years of med school.

So even after acceptance to these 2 med schools, my initial happiness seemed to die down .I was so close to even finalizing a loan for saba!.
Any thought anyone...should I still be feeling proud/happy that I got into saba...or should I go through the applications again (redo mcat and go to US) and apply to low tier MD and DO schools in the states (and wait another year).
I also got in york and UofT for MPH/MHsc...so I could use the year with that while waiting for the md/do applications to open up.

ANY INPUT from current/past Caribbean students is appreciated. Hell ,thoughts even from on-shore med students who know something on the issue is appreciated.

In any case...my co-signer for loans is leaving in a few weeks....so I have only so much time to decide and secure a loan if I decide to go to SABA.

Originally Posted by thinker001

Yeah I applied after the master's (neuro) + good publication. no luck. it could have been my GPA + personal statement not strong enough. not really sure unfortunately.

If you dont mind me asking..thinker001 ,what was your gpa after masters..and your undergrad gpa?

I am just trying to see where I stand.


According the excel tool that prettysmart posted...I have a "high chance" at 8 US MD schools....but for the state I put ON..for ontario...I am not even sure the tool is designed for canadians...Its also the same chances when i type in NY.

So my question is the same as USMAN1...how useful are the approximations made by this tool (esp for non US citizens like canadians)?

to Glutamine: I havent read any official site that lead to that statement...it is only based on actual students posting here about the difficulty of the matches from year to year...they have been through it...so it seems to be a good indicator..as opposed to being simply very optimistic and closing our eyes and saying all is well..and we will match with certainity if we work hard

Again, thanks to everyone for thier input...discussions like these...help us make more informed decisions...instead of refusing to talk about it b/c of its uncertainity and making rapid decisions....that being said...this discussion has gotten me to think more about the US schools....so I am happy that I posted...however I am still undecided...as i think my chances are (very) slim in the US...esp based on people who have tried that route and still ended up in saba...only having wasted one year

Originally Posted by atropine

Sorry but don't graduate school grades count towards medical school apps? I thought they did.

Regardless, you should never apply to a Caribbean school until you've at least tried your hardest to get into Canada/US. You're getting advice from first/second semesters who have no *idea* what reality is like out there for matching. The reality is, you will likely NOT match in Canada just by doing an elective there, and it doesn't matter if you only want family medicine or IM. You may have a decent shot in the US, but nobody knows whether that will still be true in 4 years for a Canadian citizen who needs a visa, at least not without some decent Step 1/2 scores. And nobody can guarantee you will get those scores.

Come here if you are positive that you want to be a physician, but in my opinion you shouldn't come here without at least trying to apply to Canada first. The worst thing would be to just come here and fail out or never match and then wonder what would have happened if you had only tried to improve your app and apply to Canada/US first.

gianf... who matched to UofT plastic surgery specifically said him doing electives in Canada did matter more than his scores.... so it's not the first or second semester students who are saying this...

I am a first sem and I never make any comments on how difficult it is to match here or there... so please stop blaming the world on first and second sem students...

Originally Posted by solace

I m currently in my final semester completing a Hon Bsc at UofT. By the end of my degree my cGPA will be 3.36 and science GPA will be 3.6. Current years gpa is 4.0.If I actually study very well in the summer and take the mcat..I know I can get 30+ easily..based on practice tests.
I have been accepted to ROSS AND SABA for fall 2010,but Iam not even considering Ross because SABA is better for canadians, so I’ve heard.

Ross requires MCAT score and you said you've been accepted to Ross. That means you have taken MCAT before. What was your mcat score and why and how are you so sure that you can get 30+ easily.. based on practice tests? Maybe you should use your old mcat score to predict your future score. That will be more realistic!

I used the med school matrix to enter your data and found that only one school, Howard University, might take you. It shows that you have very slim chance of getting accepted to us med school. (Look at column O "%int'l accepted" of the matrix, the other "hopeful" and "go for it" med schools accept 0 international students.)

Click the following link and you will see your chance of getting accepted to us med schools are:

NAAHP: International Medical Schools
When applying to US medical schools, non-US citizen permanent residents (green card ..... Approximately 10-12 foreign students are accepted each year, ... or visa status and enrolls a small number of international candidates every year. ...
www.naahp.org/resources_ForeignMed_Article.htm



Don't listen to people on this forum who advise you to try us med or DO schools first. You are just wasting your time and application fee.

You should be grateful that saba gives you a chance to fulfill your dream of becoming a doctor. Listen to sgMD - "Now meanwhile, focus on your studies and get A's... and if you can, study Anatomy and Embryo on the side... it will help you once you get down here."

Originally Posted by prettysmart

Ross requires MCAT score and you said you've been accepted to Ross. That means you have taken MCAT before. What was your mcat score and why and how are you so sure that you can get 30+ easily.. based on practice tests? Maybe you should use your old mcat score to predict your future score. That will be more realistic!

I used the med school matrix to enter your data and found that only one school, Howard University, might take you. It shows that you have very slim chance of getting accepted to us med school. (Look at column O "%int'l accepted" of the matrix, the other "hopeful" and "go for it" med schools accept 0 international students.)


Don't listen to people on this forum who advise you to try us med or DO schools first. You are just wasting your time and application fee.

You should be grateful that saba gives you a chance to fulfill your dream of becoming a doctor. Listen to sgMD - "Now meanwhile, focus on your studies and get A's... and if you can, study Anatomy and Embryo on the side... it will help you once you get down here."

Yes I did take the mcat, but I use my current aamc practice tests as an indicator of my future performance as opposed to my previous attempt because as stupid as it sounds...I wrote my first mcat attempt with less than a weeks prep.

So i entered my projected gpa and mcat into the tool u posted and it showed 8 schools with high chance....but i did not go to column zero and see the intl student...perhaps that how you got the one school.

In any case...based on all the info you have shown me....my chances seem slim and maybe rejecting saba now may not be the best move......maybe its like shooting myself in the foot.... what if i decrease my standards/demands and say that i will even accept a FM/IM residency in US if UofT doesnt work out....then does coming to saba seem like a worthwhile decision with real chances of residency...i dont know...

Originally Posted by rs27

I've read all this doom and gloom on the forums about no residencies in 4 years as well...honestly I'm choosing to ignore it - people can speculate all that want, they don't know what it will be like in 4 years. Maybe we will get screwed, maybe we won't...

True, but that would be foolish to come to Saba without even trying other options first. If after you get rejected from LCME schools you decide that you'd like to take the risk (however big or small) at a Caribbean school, then go for it. But to go straight there without first trying at home is just a little bit crazy in my opinion. With a 4.0 gpa you can apply to and get interviews at Queens and UofT and if you are enrolled in another year of undergrad at that time and perform just as well, then you will be perfect for a match. Of course if you have a completely unsalvageable GPA, and you don't think you can go back and improve it or it would take you another 4 years to do a whole new degree, that might change the situation a bit.

Originally Posted by sgMD

gianf... who matched to UofT plastic surgery specifically said him doing electives in Canada did matter more than his scores.... so it's not the first or second semester students who are saying this...

He said electives were more important than scores, what the heck does that have to do with how likely your chances are of matching into Canada? Do you know how many people do electives in Canada and DON'T match? Do you know how many Canadian students match vs. how many actually apply? I didn't think so....

Originally Posted by atropine

True, but that would be foolish to come to Saba without even trying other options first. If after you get rejected from LCME schools you decide that you'd like to take the risk (however big or small) at a Caribbean school, then go for it. But to go straight there without first trying at home is just a little bit crazy in my opinion. With a 4.0 gpa you can apply to and get interviews at Queens and UofT and if you are enrolled in another year of undergrad at that time and perform just as well, then you will be perfect for a match. Of course if you have a completely unsalvageable GPA, and you don't think you can go back and improve it or it would take you another 4 years to do a whole new degree, that might change the situation a bit.

I agree...you should obviously try your absolute best to get a spot in Canada or even the USA, but with a cGPA of 3.3, you know what the chances are. I don't get why Ontario students can't get into the States with 3.7 GPAs, but I'm assuming they have everything stacked against them being international applicants. If someone makes the decision to come to the Carib though, they might as well focus more on doing well and putting themself in a position to succeed rather than on factors they can't control.

Originally Posted by solace

If you dont mind me asking..thinker001 ,what was your gpa after masters..and your undergrad gpa?

I am just trying to see where I stand.

Sure. 3.4 undergrad and 4.0 grad with first author in a good journal. quite a good amount of volunteering and activities, some travel, etc.

33 balanced MCAT... applied to about 26 US schools.. not a single interview.

Originally Posted by thinker001

Sure. 3.4 undergrad and 4.0 grad with first author in a good journal. quite a good amount of volunteering and activities, some travel, etc.

33 balanced MCAT... applied to about 26 US schools.. not a single interview.

oh my gosh
So i guess you are pretty much decided on saba...or still looking at the other big 3?

If cornell qatar answers me by some divine intervention then it's my first choice. but other than that it's gonna be Saba because it's the cheapest and getting the money is challenging for me.... big f*ing sigh!

Originally Posted by atropine

He said electives were more important than scores, what the heck does that have to do with how likely your chances are of matching into Canada?

could you elaborate on this sentence your wrote please?

PS: calm down! no need to get mad... we are all here to learn from each other and discuss things (not agree with each other all the time necessarily)