I love Lexus. Specially how now it parallel parks for you!

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Saba University...

From what the dean of clinical rotations has said, all Saba clinical rotations are greenbook, meaning that each hospital at least has a family practice ACGME accredited residency under which all the other rotations fall as part of the training program. Such rotations are sometimes referred to as "bluebook" to avoid confusion.

Not all Saba clinical rotations are "greenbook by specialty", meaning that not all rotations are done in hospitals that have fellowships available in the same field students do a clinical rotation.
"Greenbook by specialty" is only important if you want to get licensed in Virginia or Texas. I can't remember if California is a greenbook by specialty state, or just a regular greenbook state (not interested in cali myself).

Doing rotations under a well known supervisor might be achievable from Saba in core clerkships, but your best bet no matter which school you go to would be to arrange such "audition" rotations as an elective at whatever hospital you want. By that point you will be well versed in how to handle being in the hospital, and electives are relatively easy to get at most teaching hospitals compared to core rotation spots that medical centers save for their own local students.

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Saba Forum Moderator
Saba University School of Medicine, MSIV
Interests: Pediatrics, Psychiatry

So, for example, if I want to get licensed in Texas for general surgery, I would have to do a general surgery rotation at a hospital that's greenbook by specialty?

And for electives, you're saying I can choose most teaching hospitals in the US? I'm not limited to the ones affiliated with Saba?

Yes to the first question.
Yes to the second question also, with some qualifications (see below).
Yes to the third question.

Regarding electives, you basically set up your 4th year elective rotations on your own, though Saba's clinical rotation office can give some leads on places that students have used. You network during your core 3rd year rotations and work on finding places to do electives, which may sometimes be done right in the same hospitals you did your core rotations in if you want. You are always limited to hospitals that Saba has a written contract of affiliation with - this is necessary for many states, including Texas to count your rotations as acceptable. However, if Saba does not already have an affiliation with a teaching hospital, you can try to fix that.
If you have already laid the groundwork and discovered that a program would be open to allowing you to rotate with them you can alert Saba's clinical coordinator and give them the program's contact information. Saba will then send the hospital a packet informing them about what Saba is, the appropriate paperwork, legal stuff, negotiate fees, etc. One requirement that Saba has is that the clinical rotation cannot be so expensive that your tuition doesn't cover the cost of you rotating there.

Yep, the hospital charges us through Saba for the priviledge of (hopefully) learning medicine. One way that teaching hospitals can diplomatically keep out undesirable med students, then, is to charge an arm and a leg for clinical rotations. After all, you could probably rotate at a Harvard hospital, for the right price (no, I'm not kidding).
On occassion I have heard that students have been willing to pay more out of pocket for an expensive rotation, but I don't think the school encourages that.
By the way, one of the reasons I chose Saba was because students and alumni could and would give me detailed answers like this one.
Good luck,
~W

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Saba Forum Moderator
Saba University School of Medicine, MSIV
Interests: Pediatrics, Psychiatry

Thanks a lot wolfgang.

So then the list of affiliated hospitals on the Saba website is a list of all the hospitals where students have done both core and elective rotations in the past?

If I wanted to, can I set up some sweet core rotations myself? Do most students who try to set up their electives at the better teaching hospitals succeed? Saba discourages students from paying out of their own pocket, but they still allow it, right? I wouldn't mind forking out a few extra g's if it means I'll get in on some totally sweet rotations and improve my application for residencies.

If this is the case, then it pretty much negates the huge advantage that SGU offers --the larger list of affiliate hospitals from which to choose (because I can go to those hospitals anyway!) I think I'd rather save my 100g.

oh: and about the greenbook by specialty issue: it doesn't matter where that hospital is, right? All Texas requires is that I rotate at any greenbook by specialty hospital in the US for the specialty I'm trying to get licensed for?

I believe Texas requires all greenbook by specialty (meaning all of your cores and electives) -> not just the specialty you are interested practicing in.

Wolfie, correct me if I am wrong - you know more about Texas.

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Ducman
Saba University School of Medicine

I would definitely hold out for interviews at US schools with the great MCAT score. I would go to St. Georges as a second resort when the US options are eliminated, since it is much easier to get a good residency spot as a US grad (not that it is impossible from Saba or St. Georges, but it is more difficult).

Yes, you are correct, as usual!
Whoa there! Don't oversimplify this.

First, you are assuming that Saba will do a contract with a hospital that charges too much...and from the way our clinical coordinator talks, I don't know that they always will. I think Saba is more interested in building long term working relationships with hospitals rather than one shot deals for just one student. I think it has been done before, just don't count on it before you have even talked to anybody that matters.
I don't know how many students here get all greenbook by specialty or not, or how many set up their own core rotations, those are good questions for Saba's clinical coordinator.

Second, I'm pretty sure that Saba doesn't list every single hospital on the website that you can do rotations at, they just list a lot of the main ones to partially satisfy prospects and students, so that newbie students aren't constantly calling and irritating hospital staff and messing up things.

Third, setting up cores and electives are two different ball-games. Hospitals that would never ever let you do a core clincal will let you do electives because they have more space as their own students move on to other places. They reserve their core spots for their students first, then in-state students, then U.S. students, then Canadian students, then their dog, then their pet turtle, then caribbean grads, in that order. (I exaggerrate for effect...but only a little.)

What I have been told is that you can get all "green book by specialty" by attending Saba if you are flexible and don't mind moving around some from city to city, and if you are willing to be patient instead of demanding all clinicals back to back according to your own schedule.

SGU may or may not offer more "greenbook by specialty" clinical rotations for students than Saba. I don't know one way or the other.
If I was single, with no previous educational debt, and wanted to get into a tough-to-get state like Texas or specialize in a hard-to-get specialty like dermatology I'd probably go to SGU for that extra little edge I might get. But I'm not those things, so Saba was the better spot for me for a myriad of reasons.
Also, don't forget, if you absolutely must have Texas you may wish to consider Ross because they are expressly approved by Texas already.
Good luck!
~W

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Saba Forum Moderator
Saba University School of Medicine, MSIV
Interests: Pediatrics, Psychiatry

thanks for all the responses guys. i had actually never heard the term "greenbook" before in reference to hospital rotations. i am really hoping that i don't have to leave the country, although i think my friend will do just fine coming out of SGU. the tuition there really does bother me though, esp since u are limited on the amt of stafford loans u can take out. any good SABA success stories??

I am indeed single and debt-free. And I might like emergency or general surgery, which, I've read, are moderately competitive residencies.

I still don't know if the extra 100g in tuition is worth it.

I think in my case, being a Canadian, I'm already at a huge disadvantage. So no matter what school I go to (SGU or Saba), I'm going to miss out on the schools that don't take IMGs and do not offer H1Bs.

Man I don't know. I suppose in the long run (the rest of my life), 100g is not a big deal if it ends up helping me gain acceptance to a better residency, and consequently a higher paying job.