do not rotate to kings county hosp for internal med. they will use/abuse u, u will not study/learn, no time, u are supervised by PAs, no residents on that unit, they are very disrespectful mostly attending. other medical schools are assigned to units with residents, this is the only program that fail some students. research n think about it. its 12 credits approx $9-10,000

Edited by moderator for innapropriate content.

I edited this post because I believe the message about this hospital has gotten out. I hope they will soon make the necessary changes for the upcoming Ross students. Good luck to everyone!

Thanks guys for the info.

Im sorry to hear about your situation. Hopefully, others can shed light on some other rotations so those in Miami or on the island can be aware. It really sucks to pay all that money and get some sorry training.

Good luck.

Sorry to hear about King's.

I am doing IM at Wyckoff Heights. It is a great rotation thus far. I am learning a lot every day (the attendings are all, except for a couple, great teachers). And there is plenty of time to study as well.

So if you can, avoid King's and go to Wyckoff.

MINE INCLUDED. I rotated in IM at neither Wycoff or King's however I know many people who did both so I thought I would give a somewhat varying report on what I have heard from them. One thing both seem to have in common is lack of strict student supervision. Where they seem to differ is how much you as a student are responsible for.
Kings: Did hear that there is little direct supervision alot of the time and it is really student directed learning. You have ALOT more responsibility here which might be good for you or bad for you. I have heard several people who loved it do to the fact that they learned real well how to manage a pt. and work as a team (with other students). I have also until reading the preceding very RUDE and unprofessional post above heard nothing but great things about Dr. Reese. That being said the rotation is probably not for everyone and may be better suited for Ross students with more basic science knowledge and some previous healthcare experience.
Wycoff: I have heard reports (and seen the products of Wycoff int. med.) that makes me feel it is a TERRIBLE place to go for IM. It seems that you have NO responsibilities and very little pt. interaction outside of doing pt. H&P's. Most students I have rotated with after their IM rotation at Wycoff seem completely clueless and unprepared for other rotations as a result of doing med. there. I have heard many say the days are short and incredibly easy and nobody cares what you do most the time. In my opinion one would do themeselves a favor to avoid IM at Wycoff.
Before anyone responds please remember that this board exists to foster information to potentials and other Ross students. Please don't attack me or anyone else (i.e. attendings at either hospital) directly. or construe my statements as attacks on you if you did your IM at either facility. Rather state your opinion on the topic and why you agree or disagree with mine and other posters statements. Thanks

P.S. I did IM in Md and the program was somewhere between the vastly different levels of responsibility and supervision that I have heard about at Wycoff and Kings and I would highly recommend it to anyone who breaks 200 on step one (their cut off) It's called Harbor Hospital in Baltimore Md.

I pretty much have to agree with what babydaddy says above.

There is also VERY bad blood between the IM and FP services at Wyckoff, although having done both of those core clerkships at Wyckoff I can tell you that I learned/did a heck of a lot more during the FP rotation.

The problem with IM at Wyckoff is that the residents don't care about teaching because they are not held accountable for students and, aside from the regular didactics (some of which are quite good), they don't empower students to do anything more than stand around and look pretty. So, at Wyckoff you get a lot of teaching with no responsibility

King's IM, from what I've heard, is the perfect diametric of Wyckoff: too much responsibility without any real teaching.

-Skip

__________________
http://www.studentdoctor.net/

Did you guys get any real say as to where you did any of your core rotations? Or are we pretty much stuck with what Ross assigns us?

Pls bear with me these may be elementary questions:

1. Is the IM rotation at Kings County Hospital a "Greenbook" ACGME certified program? I don't see it listed on the ACGME website under Internal Medicne. Or is it "Greenbook" because it has residency programs for other specialties?

2. Anybody know the ACGME certification number for Kings County?

u can not compare wyckoff im to kings, wyckoff is comparable to what us med student get from im rotation. wyckof u are given a great opportunity to engage and learn. its up to u to learn. u are not pressured. u are assigned to a team consisting of an attending physician and residents, they have a patient load. u are considered a part of the team. u round with them every am. if u have question they are VERY happy to explain/ teach u, (if u ask). i have not heard of any situation where u ask and they ignore u or yell at u. scutwork is ABSOLUTELY NOT ALLOWED by the attendings. u are reqiured to do many h/ps(database) u can choose the pts from any team. if u choose pts from your team u can follow the pts together with your attending, although u are not allowed to write on pt chart but u can follow the pts by writing your notes daily on your paper and discuss your pts with the attending. if u want to learn procedures like iv u are required to be taught by iv team b/4 u can do it without supervision, unlike kings u are not taught by certified staff, u are expected to learn from other students who laerned by trial and error. they may not be doing right but no body cares. at wyckof u have time to study(step2 is closer than u think), look up what u encountered, kings u are there all day lot of scut, no time to study,spend long hrs in the dirty unit. at wyckof u are allowed to examine any medicine pt regardless of the team, unit ,er, u may even go see interesting cases even in icu pending on the attending/resident. kings u are restricted to only one unit without supv. wyckof gives good LOR, kings give ross stud 1 paragraph LOR. kings lock u up in a room, off the unit when they are expecting accreditation inspectors threaten to fail u if u come to the unit. wycok does not have a problem with students presence b/c they do not have anything to hide(no shady business). wyckof has a very experienced/practical md (DR SHEKAI) that meet with med students 1-2x/wk to actually teach u how to effectively do h/ps, and address practical medicine issues. u are allowed to ask any question. also at wyckof u have im lectures 12-1p m-f. not at kings, wyckof organizes seminars for our students on practical guide to getting into residency. they invite grads from ross who recently gained residency spots. kings who cares about u.
if u are in miami or dominica research and think b/4 coming. ask ross to give u stat of im rotation failures ( u will find its only kings) i have been all over.
4th yr student

Edited by moderator for innapropriate content.

Agree with above post, I did IM at Wyckoff and did 4 weeks sub-I at King County. I know few people at King County failed step 2 because they are really good in putting IV, ABG however because they did not have any teaching time, so they did not prepare well for board exam. I also did 4 weeks adult ER rotation at Wyckoff, I learned a lot of procedures there plus it's exciting because of the acute situation. In King county, there are quite a few chronic patients with hiv. You are forced to do blood work on them.

If you want teaching time and hands on, I recommend Wycoff IM and 4 Weeks of Adult ER (also very tiring but it's only for four weeks)!! ER is also very high yield on step 2.