i worked as a PA for 10 yrs b/4 going to med school. I did my im rotation at kings, i totally agree with above comment. Its a chaos. I have worked with a ton of med students and attendings prior to med sch. There is no other program that rob the students as kings. You do not learn. You may think are learning hands on skill, but you are actually leaning the incorrect ways of performing these skills.i herad somebody got stuck with a needle while drawing blood from hiv pt but could not report it b/c they will fail you for incompetence. If i knew what i know now i would not have gone to kings. i suggest ross should reveiw and stop this program. I know a few folks from my group that failed the rotation, they were never absent, they worked hard they were not told they were failing. I am almost done with all my rotations, i have not met any other student from any other program that failed core rotation. With perfect attendance you should be guarranteed a pass but not kings. I feel for those students because most imgs apply for im residency and kings can ruin your prospect, You don't want to pay kings $10,000 to damage your prospect when you can go to any other program to do im.
DON'T GO THERE, TELL ROSS, YOU DO NOT WANT KINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can refuse King's County IM rotation. When they send you a clinical assigment sheet, you can always check the Refused box and ask them for a reassignment. Keep in mind that this may affect your financial aid status and match date.

Yes, as FRNC kindly pointed out, King's County is a Green Brook hospital under SUNY Medical Center.

am unaware of the sdituation about kings, but as it seems people dont understand the "green book" I will do my once evry 2 months lecture on use of the green book. it is actually rare to find hospitals listed in the green book by name. usually they are listed by affiliation or by corporate name. just because you dont see the hospitals actual name, doesnt mean its not ACGME. you have to actually look at every listing for a city, and read the small print to find the names of the hospitals. In chicago, st anthonys is a ross hospital. but is not listed by name. it is listed by the name "catholic health partners"...just an example.

I agree that you should stay away from King's County. The attending reese is the most unprofessional physician I have ever met. In fact, I believe he will be in real hot water in the near future for some of his antics. An example: in the first week he makes an announcement to all the new students that if anyone makes a mistake that gets him into legal trouble he will HUNT DOWN AND KILL ALL YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS AND THEN KILL YOU. I am not jokeing, ask anyone who has rotated there. He yells at, humiliates and mocks the students to their face. Girls run away in tears. he makes fun of other doctors on the floor, nurses, hell even the social worker, calling them names. If you speak with an accent he will mock the way you talk when he yells at you. He enjoys getting an inch away from your face while he verbally attacks you, often for no good reason. I once heard him command a male student to scream like a girl. This guy is sick. These sound like outrageous accusations but I swear to you they are true. Somebody needs to get this guy fired, the problem is nobody will sacrifice an F to do it.

The other problem is that the students in the 3rd month of the rotation are put in charge and they often get on a power trip, ordering the newer students around. These will be people from your own class that may know less about medicine than you, got lower board scores, yet boss you around like they have a world of experience which is annoying.

The other comments are true too. There is no real teaching, just a few wasted lectures. There is tons of scut, which wouldnt be so bad if the students were taught something about medical conditions. The upside is that you have real responsibility for your patients. Overall I would stay away.

though this guy ****** sound a little overboard, the fact of the matter si that you will find MANY malignant personalitys who will enjoy making your life miserable in the wolrd of medicine. not to say that its right, but just to say dont take it personal, this guy definetly wont be the last to treat you like this on your road to becoming a doc.

Edited for use of proper name.

I did my IM rotation at kings. i absolutely agree, DO NOT ROTATE THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish i was told prior. i practically saw some students cry/weep. they threaten and abuse students, very unprofessional staff/language. You have pt responsibility, but its scutwork, b/c they do not have residents on that ward so you act as a technician/mechanic/ secretary for them. you do not learn. they also failed some students from my group despite a perfect attendance, dedication and hardwork. the secretary (shelene) makes it clear that if you rent accommodation through her you should pass. she does some real estate. i am glad this forum is alerting incoming students. AVOID KINGSSS FOR IM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,

I rotated at Kings for IM, Psych, and ER back in 1999. Had a great experience on all three, although that was a function of what I tried to do on the rotations, not necessarily what was provided. The lack of resident supervision on the IM rotation definitely had its positives and negatives. When I was there, I used to go on rounds in the ICU and attended lectures on the downstate side of the street. At that point, I was probably breaking some kind of rule, but I kept my mouth shut, sat in the back, and learned. The Downstate students didn't give me any problems because I didn't get in their way. I had to do all of this while also taking care of everything on the floor. It taught me how to become organzied and efficient...use the stairs, only go to radiology once, etc.

In regards to Dr. ***** , he was definitely a character back then. I'm sad to hear that he has that effect on students now. I know when I was a resident and supervising medical students from Ross, I was hard on them...but, I don't think I ever made anyone cry. At least back when I was a student, Dr. ****** had a strong desire to make people into better doctors. I hope that hasn't changed.

In regards to malignant rotations...hard work, responsibility, and accountability are good things to practice as a stduent. One person's malignant rotation is another's favorite. Best example, my wife at Brookdale for peds. The rotation had a horrible reputation. She came in and told them she was going to be a pediatrician, worked hard, showed up early, stayed late, and she had a great experience.

-Dr. Oland

Edited by moderator for use of proper name.

dr oland you rotated there in 1999. i rotated there a few months ago. when i rotated there the daily schedule was officially 7am -730pm, but we got there 6am to see the pts and some students don't leave until 8,9, 10 or somex 11pm. and be back 6-7am. we did not have the pleasure to leave the unit except for lunch if you are lucky. in med are receptive to constructive criticism in professinal manner. eg asking a male student to walk like a female or asking a student with accent not to ever speak in his preseence because "you do not speak english clearly, how many times have u attempted step 1, do you ever hope to pass???". the same student did excellent on step 1(first attempt) prior to coming to kings.
I WOULD NOT GO TO KINGS IF I HAVE TO DO IT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Greetings all. Hi, My name is Jack, a King's County survivor. I would like to welcome u all to the support group! All kidding aside, I rotated there in 2000. Is Dr. ****** still there? I heard he got fired/left, etc.. Like some of you said, some will like it b/c of learning to place IV, doing venipuncture, ABG's, blood cultures, etc.. (things that will come in handy as a resident). Some will hate it b/c no teaching, no guidance, bad faculty, unprofessional staff members ranging from RN techs thru Attendings (why should the RN techs treat you any different than the Attendings?) Dr ******* is unprofessional and tries to push his limits, but he knows with whom and when he can do that. If you act professional with him and let him know there is a limit to your tolerance, he would lessen his childishness. Don't expect him to stop, however. My experience with the rotation: Pros: 1) learned many procedures that would otherwise required an ED rotation, ie. venipunture, IV placement, G-tube insertion/withdrawal in sterile fashion, blood cultures, etc. 2) respected other allied health jobs (you can't appreciate a secretary/porter/tech until you did their jobs) 3) perfected my tolerance skill, ie. tolerated all level of staff (believe it or not, some people will need this skill every now and then) 4) Appreciated the difference between professionalism vs not. Cons: 1) scut work w/ no teaching unless you have time btwn the 4 hrs round & scut work and find a lecture to sit in 2) Long work hours 7AM - whenever (just like some residency programs! Thank goodness for new 100 hrs/wk rule) 3) Bad staff b/c everyone is overworked 4) Contrary to popular beliefs, one can't managed a patient adequately by doing only IV's, blood cultures, venipunctures, etc. You must know why it is being done and when to do it, etc. Well, that's my take. One man's trask is another's treasure: some may like this rotation, others will not.

Edited by moderator for use of proper name.

Thank you all for your input on this rotation. According to the ValueMD policies, I had to edit the proper name used but have left the content of the messages the same. Please refrain from using the name of another without their permission.

Thank you!

MitchDC

__________________
MitchDC/MD
RUSM 2006 Graduate