Thread: Students that drop out/fail out

i would like to hear from the people who made it through the first stages of med school (specifically at Caribbean schools like Ross) who noticed the types of behaviors/activities/lack of skills/etc that caused students to fail out...

i want to make a list of the characteristics that lead to failure in med school...

was it because the students werent motivated? on mom and pops dime? didnt study hard enough? goofed off? or were there genuine issues with the students ability to learn? examples would be appreciated... any other observations would be appereciated as well such as were the students typically the younger ones? btw how do these students get into the med program in the first place if they cant handle it?

thanks!

Originally Posted by hopelessMD

Thanks.
As for your claim about people being too lazy I completely disagree with you. I am not biased either, I am talking about atleast 5 kids I know who dropped out same time I did. They all studied every single day till midnight or later (I left library before they did) and they started their day at 8am. It's not about being lazy. Of course a few are lazy but you don't get this far by being lazy. Most either didn't know how to adopt to high stress, work load. There is a lot of crap being thrown at you and the way you are being tested is not regular college way. They test using USMLE method of using clinical scenarious. Many people get confused because you can't just memorize info like you did in college and highschool. You have to really know how everything works. Inside and out. I think that is one possitive thing about Ross. They really prepare you for USMLE. Others like me just realize the future looks dim if you don't want to go into FP. You can still specialize but chances are slim unless you have stellar scores and LOR from clinicals. Its not impossible but it is atleast 10x harder then from someone from states.

Good luck Hopeless. I just want to say that I think it is incredibly mature of you to be able to present and unbiased and realistic perspective of Ross, despite leaving. I have been "lurking" on valueMD for years, rarely posting and have seen a lot of butthurt over the years from people who didn't make it for whatever reason. I think what you said regarding their method of testing is extremely accurate. The clinical scenario style questions, albeit excellent preparation, is difficult for many to deal with early into the basic sciences. I also agree that it is not all a matter of intelligence. I believe that anybody who makes it into to Ross is smart enough to make it out. There are many dynamics: stress management, time management, endurance, and most importantly, enough of a desire to be a doctor that you are willing to put yourself through this for 4 years + residency. I think every one of us has doubted ourselves at one time or another, I know I have. Realizing that Ross isn't for you now is better than years down the line after you have accumulated even more debt.

As for specializing, I disagree with you a bit. What you have to consider is that Ross is a fairly large school, and graduates a lot of doctors. Given this, the distribution is going to favor USMLE scores that fall within the range of primary care, because those tend to be average scores. But there are also plenty of people every year that match into the competitive specialties as well. Not as many as match into primary care, but this is to be expected. Of course a US grad is going to have a better chance, but there are plenty of US grads that have been outcompeted for competitive spots by ECFMGs with stellar scores, good LORS, and good interviewing skills. As I've said before, it is whatever you make it.

That said, I wish you the best of luck wherever you end up. and I hope you continue posting as a lot of people would be interested in hearing your perspective.

I am a first semester student and post second mini, I can say that most who decide to leave do so because they realize that this is not for them, others leave because they realize that they can't pass and others do so because of family issues (there are many married couples here).

It is not difficult to survive. If you work hard and know all the stuff, you will do rather well. When I say hard work, I mean that repeating the information from the lecture notes and doing practice questions, you will be fine.

You do not have to be extra smart or burden yourself with 15 hrs of work. It is all about managing time, understanding your limit and recognizing your ability.

If all that is under control, then you will do fine and pass.

Originally Posted by ayastona

i would like to hear from the people who made it through the first stages of med school (specifically at Caribbean schools like Ross) who noticed the types of behaviors/activities/lack of skills/etc that caused students to fail out...

i want to make a list of the characteristics that lead to failure in med school...

was it because the students werent motivated? on mom and pops dime? didnt study hard enough? goofed off? or were there genuine issues with the students ability to learn? examples would be appreciated... any other observations would be appereciated as well such as were the students typically the younger ones? btw how do these students get into the med program in the first place if they cant handle it?

thanks!

The biggest contributing factor is motivation! You MUST be able to motivate yourself and stay as positive as possible (which ironically is almost impossible what whatever). It is SO EASY to get frustrated and forget what you are fighting for. I mentioned this earlier in a different thread but I think it is SOO important to seriously reflect on your reasons for becoming a doctor. Yeah, yeah I know you all love people and helping others and all that crap; but seriously WHY DO YOU WANT TO BECOME A DOCTOR? If you can answer that question and be honest with yourself then you probably have the determination to propel yourself through this “gauntlet”. You need to fully understand your strengths and weaknesses and be able to ask for help when you need it. Pride will be your downfall if you let it consume you so check it in at the door.
Anyway, sorry to go on a rant but I am hung over from splash-bash (which is amazing btw, best party ever) and I didn’t want to start studying yet but there you have it, my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by shriman

I am a first semester student and post second mini, I can say that most who decide to leave do so because they realize that this is not for them, others leave because they realize that they can't pass and others do so because of family issues (there are many married couples here).

It is not difficult to survive. If you work hard and know all the stuff, you will do rather well. When I say hard work, I mean that repeating the information from the lecture notes and doing practice questions, you will be fine.

You do not have to be extra smart or burden yourself with 15 hrs of work. It is all about managing time, understanding your limit and recognizing your ability.

If all that is under control, then you will do fine and pass.

I'm also a first semester student.

The one case that I know first hand, left for personal reasons and non-school related stress. She may have been failing her classes too, but that was on top of everything else.

I'm still hanging in there but I'm definitely not comfortable. I've been riding the pass/fail line since Mini 1. If people ask me what's the hardest thing about medical school at Ross, I'd tell them that you have to re-learn how to study while the information just keeps piling on. It took me about 4-5 weeks to figure it out (and a lot of mediocre grades). I put in as many hours as the next person but there was so much useless information that I reviewed that wasn't on the test.

I don't mind sharing my grades.

According to the Academic Success calculator I need 50's in Physiology and Biochem, high 60's in Histology, and low 70's in Anatomy. With my new study pattern I feel good about Physio and Biochem. With one more Histology practical, I feel comfortable with Histology (even though I did terrible on Mini 2). Anatomy is the one I'm worried about. We'll see what happens in Mini 3, but if I can't get my Anatomy grades up, I might go into triage mode for the Final. I might just completely abandon Anatomy for the final.

I'd rather fail one subject by a lot than fails 3+ subjects by just a little. (They won't let you repeat.)

If I do fail Anatomy, I'm coming back for sure to give it another go. But it's a little early for that, Mini 3 is still 4 weeks away. We'll see what happens.

Maybe some people already have it figured out and the way they studied during undergrad and for the MCAT works the same for them here at Ross. It definitely didn't work out that way for me.

Oh yeah and...

...I studied my *** off and still got poor grades on Mini 1 (50's and 60's). I can't imagine what kind of grades people got if they didn't take it seriously. I'm sure there were a few.

Originally Posted by JonathanMD

Oh yeah and...

...I studied my *** off and still got poor grades on Mini 1 (50's and 60's). I can't imagine what kind of grades people got if they didn't take it seriously. I'm sure there were a few.

BTW, studying your *blank* off to get 50-60s indicate that your study methods are still holding on the mindset of undergrad level. By academic difficulty, Sem 1 is the easiest. But by academic challenges, it is one of the most challenging semester because it is the biggest rise in academic workload from undergrad. It's like learning to take the first big step. After you learned that, all the big step that follow it will be within grasp.

Originally Posted by JonathanMD

I'm also a first semester student.

The one case that I know first hand, left for personal reasons and non-school related stress. She may have been failing her classes too, but that was on top of everything else.

I'm still hanging in there but I'm definitely not comfortable. I've been riding the pass/fail line since Mini 1. If people ask me what's the hardest thing about medical school at Ross, I'd tell them that you have to re-learn how to study while the information just keeps piling on. It took me about 4-5 weeks to figure it out (and a lot of mediocre grades). I put in as many hours as the next person but there was so much useless information that I reviewed that wasn't on the test.

I don't mind sharing my grades.

According to the Academic Success calculator I need 50's in Physiology and Biochem, high 60's in Histology, and low 70's in Anatomy. With my new study pattern I feel good about Physio and Biochem. With one more Histology practical, I feel comfortable with Histology (even though I did terrible on Mini 2). Anatomy is the one I'm worried about. We'll see what happens in Mini 3, but if I can't get my Anatomy grades up, I might go into triage mode for the Final. I might just completely abandon Anatomy for the final.

I'd rather fail one subject by a lot than fails 3+ subjects by just a little. (They won't let you repeat.)

If I do fail Anatomy, I'm coming back for sure to give it another go. But it's a little early for that, Mini 3 is still 4 weeks away. We'll see what happens.

Maybe some people already have it figured out and the way they studied during undergrad and for the MCAT works the same for them here at Ross. It definitely didn't work out that way for me.

For Anatomy do BRS, do Michigan and I personally don't spend a lot of time on the lectures. Watch the PROSECTION they helped me tremendously for the practical. I'm getting straight B's except for Histo...borderline there. Any advice?

Originally Posted by Gijian

BTW, studying your *blank* off to get 50-60s indicate that your study methods are still holding on the mindset of undergrad level. By academic difficulty, Sem 1 is the easiest. But by academic challenges, it is one of the most challenging semester because it is the biggest rise in academic workload from undergrad. It's like learning to take the first big step. After you learned that, all the big step that follow it will be within grasp.

Well not exactly. I can tell you what I was doing wrong:

I was attending/watching every lecture 2-3 times and reviewing my notes 2-3 times. The total amount of time I put into studying was easily 2x that I was doing during undergrad, so I don't think that theory holds up. I wasn't here just screwing around.

My problem was that it was all surface information. I wasn't making connections to the clinical correlates and I waited too long before I started working on practice problems (and when I did, I knew I was in trouble).

I was basically studying for primary questions instead of secondary and tertiary questions.

(Attending/watching any lecture more than once is a complete waste of time.)

Jon: Lots of people are stressing anatomy. We all plan on nailing the 2nd practical.

Shiz: Know it to the point where you can almost recite the slides (minus the filler text). And obviously any/all diseases mentioned

As a fourth semester student I will say that in my opinion the first semester was the most difficult semester. Not due to the material though. Its all about the adjustment to med school, the island, and approach to study. It crawled by so slowly. The other semesters fly at light speed and go so much better once you got a plan and tactic to tackle the material they throw at you.