Ross Vs. SGU Facts not Fiction. - Page 11

utorontograd · #**101** (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shah_Patel_PT

Reason for high scores: A lot of them are naturally brilliant! (Only the top 1% of the top 10% high school students in India have a chance of a good medical education)
...Plus FMGs get almost 1 year of down time to study for the USMLE exams. Most of them just memorize the Kaplan Notes verbatim.....trust me...I have seen this first hand!

I'm not sure if I buy into the idea of natural brilliance anymore. I've never met anyone with stellar grades that didn't put the work in. Of course some have to work harder than others but that's beside the point. Based on what everyone here is saying, it seems to me that it's the work ethic instilled in students in India at a young age that account for the high USMLE step scores. That and the 1 year they have to study.

HocusPocus · #**102** (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utorontograd

it's the work ethic instilled in students in India at a young age that account for the high USMLE step scores.

I agree, foreign students are so much smarter than American students

popozao · #**103** (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HocusPocus

I agree, foreign students are so much smarter than American students

foreign students, particularly asian students, tend to memorize more and think less. they rely on rote more than reasoning. American students are just the opposite, and thereby seem much brighter.
I'm not taking sides. this is just what i've observed.

but back to the original topic................let's not stray

teratos · #**104** (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 07:27 PM

I wonder what Mel Gibson would say?

Shah_Patel_PT · #**105** (**permalink**) 10-27-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teratos

I wonder what Mel Gibson would say?

lol...aahh the joy we get from comparing stereotypes!

Locuscoeruleus22 · #**106** (**permalink**) 10-28-2006, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokshana

first it hasn't been called the CSA in the last 3 years- its Step II- CS and its named so because everyone has to take Step II CS, not just FMGs(that wat was the CSA was for- it was a different test).

the reason to do a rotation outside of the US? Because, like basic sciences, the object isn't to just learn the material for a test in class, or even just the material emphasized on Step I, its to build a foundation of knowledge that will help you be a better doctor. Sure there are people who memorized everything and can spit out material that will do well on their tests, but if you understand, really understand the material from the 1st 2 years of medical school, you will be able to score well on step I- you don't need to be taught to the boards. Unfortunately most of us don't take the time to do this- so we need the focus a med school and review classes give to teach us to the boards. So while it will make it easier to do well on step II,to do US rotations, learning the basics of clinical medicine and learning them well can be done in any rotation, anywhere. In fact, from what my friends who have done rotations in the UK have said that the art of medicine, the ability to take a thorough history and clinical skills are much more strongly emphasized in the UK than in the US(where diagnostic labs are used more than hands on diagnositic techniques). Will this help you on Step II? Maybe not directly, but it will make you a better doctor- and that's the real point, isn't it?

During a foreign away rotation can be a great learning experience (many US students do them as well).

The point isn't that a non-ACGME rotation will give you a crappy experience or not enough education (the same could be said of an ACGME rotation as well), but that it makes paperwork and fufillment of residency and later licensure requirements easier.

And actually if you really want a crazy good Step score- you should probably go to an Indian med school and then take the steps - seems the method of study required for the Indian schools is ideal for step study- they have some CRAZY high scores!

Whether it's CSA or CS, it's still the United States Medical Licensing Examinations. It is a good experience to learn how medicine is practiced else where, and it makes you more well-rounded, and maybe a better doctor. But the bottom line is that we're not trying to practice in the UK. US med students do their ELECTIVES abroad not core rotations, and they don't just go to UK/Europe, most of my friends actually went to places like India, Nepal, and South America.
Please don't lose sight of the point of my last reply: we need to keep our medical education path as similar as possible to our US counterparts; that's why we chose ROSS or SGU in your case and not Bangladesh Medical College.
I hope I won't encounter too many obstacles by the time I start my rotations.

liqu0rleadstocha0s · #**107** (**permalink**) 10-28-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locuscoeruleus22

Whether it's CSA or CS, it's still the United States Medical Licensing Examinations. It is a good experience to learn how medicine is practiced else where, and it makes you more well-rounded, and maybe a better doctor. But the bottom line is that we're not trying to practice in the UK. US med students do their ELECTIVES abroad not core rotations, and they don't just go to UK/Europe, most of my friends actually went to places like India, Nepal, and South America.
Please don't lose sight of the point of my last reply: we need to keep our medical education path as similar as possible to our US counterparts; that's why we chose ROSS or SGU in your case and not Bangladesh Medical College.
I hope I won't encounter too many obstacles by the time I start my rotations.

i just got my acceptance letter to Ross and if i decide to go im hoping for the same thing...this thread, as informative as it has been, has given me serious second thoughts but i dont really have much options at this point...good luck though!

rokshana · #**108** (**permalink**) 10-28-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locuscoeruleus22

Whether it's CSA or CS, it's still the United States Medical Licensing Examinations. It is a good experience to learn how medicine is practiced else where, and it makes you more well-rounded, and maybe a better doctor. But the bottom line is that we're not trying to practice in the UK. US med students do their ELECTIVES abroad not core rotations, and they don't just go to UK/Europe, most of my friends actually went to places like India, Nepal, and South America.
Please don't lose sight of the point of my last reply: we need to keep our medical education path as similar as possible to our US counterparts; that's why we chose ROSS or SGU in your case and not Bangladesh Medical College.
I hope I won't encounter too many obstacles by the time I start my rotations.

i think daniel's point was that since Ross doesn't have enough ACGME peds programs for their students to do them in a timely manner, then at least have the option of UK rotaions, so at least an equivalant program could be used by those that want to get things done in a timely manner, yet don't want to have problems later down the line. Obviously the best way to insure this would be to have enough ACGME rotations, but..

hopefully,as Ross (and SGU too) are increasing their class sizes they will increase the number of spots- but if you want to make sure you don't run into problems, you just might have to be proactive and find your own (you'll find sometimes you have to be very proactive in clinicals to increase your knowledge!).

oh and FYI- no Bangladesh Medical School- the main one is Dhaka Medical School.

Daniel · #**109** (**permalink**) 10-28-2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locuscoeruleus22

It all makes logical sense...when we were applying to medical school, our first choice was obviously to go to a school in the US, but since we couldn't, we're going to a school that has the same curriculum as those in the US. If it is so vital that our training is as similar as possible to our US counterparts, why would I go to the UK for CORE rotations?

This is like asking why you went to the Caribbean for medical school. The answer being that you couldnt get into a US med school. Anything other reason is, at best, stupid and at worst...stupid. I never believed people who said that they got into a US med school but chose the Caribbean instead. The only people that got into a US med school and are in the Caribbean are those that were, for one reason or another, dismissed from the US system and didnt want to give up on their dreams of becoming a physician so they made their way down to the Caribbean. So, I guess, technically, there are people in the Caribbean that got into US schools.

You asked why would you goto the UK for Cores? Because an ACGME Peds core was not available to you in a timely manner in the US. Very few, if any, students intending to practice in the US opt to goto the UK for all cores...rather, it may be due to necessity. That being said, I would bet that your overall education, whether you view it as being US traiined or UK trained, would NOT change one bit if you did a measly 6 week core in Peds in the UK.

It is one thing to do your entire curriculum in the UK...it is another, however, to do 1 or 2 cores there. The differences in medical practice at this level (3rd year students) between the UK and the US for such a short period of time, namely 6-12 weeks, is negligible. Anyone who thinks 6 weeks of training in the US at the MSIII level is far superior to 6 weeks of training in the UK doesnt understand that medicine is not a race, rather, it is an accumulation of knowledge that you incorporate and use in every life to treat your patients. It is a lifelong learning process...in which 6 weeks is but a speck in the grander scheme of things.

popozao · #**110** (**permalink**) 10-28-2006, 02:42 PM

from what i've heard from instructors, UK training is pretty good. the only difference i've heard is the way they check for flank pain at the costovertebral angle. i don't remember if they pound the fist on the other hand or not.

but otherwise, it's nearly identical.

But i wouldn't suggest going to the UK for peds if you wanna go into peds residency. Dunno what the disadvantages are. Doesn't matter anyway, cuz ross won't let you

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