To Whom in May Concern:


Firstly, has anyone conducted any in depth research into DL Learning?

Secondly, has anyone taken the results and continued with their research into DL-BcSc-MD program(s), currently being offered on the market?

Research.

1. Scholarly or scientific investigation or inquiry.
2. Close, careful study.

Definition Courtesy of www.dictionary.com

May I obtain a copy of your initial research, and/or any consequent publication(s)? I will be happy to buy a copy of your dissertation or abstract(s) (payments via Western Union).

I am not looking for the usual, CONTACT YOUR STATE BOARDS MUD SLINGING, so save your virtual ink.

I am looking for objective, scientific, linear studies.............not .05 cent a second phone calls, where the author of the phone call gives us the usual "I told you so" tirades of being right, or (256 Kbs) e-mails to Medical Boards, with AD PORTAS, rejections as proof of the non-acceptance of DL in Medical Education.

I will concede that Medical Boards are rejecting DL education in Medicine. I won't concede that the rejection is based upon objective data.

But I suspect that,AD PORTAS REJECTION ,is based upon manifest ignorance of any conclusive and authoritive study in the field, conducted by objective proponents (a.k.a. EXPERTS), of either the "for" or "against" persuasion.

The next time one of the expert(s) attends a State Medical Board inquiry, please provide them with YOUR objective study in the field and in which recognized magazine it was published in. CC Value MD.
THANK YOU.

- THE EDITOR

I am looking for the experts, to provide the data in what ever form (raw, copied, plagiarized, or other) they/he/she have/has.

We all know the outcomes, the outcomes is the rejection of DL Learning in the eyes of the State Medical Boards. Beyond a google search, how many have actually conducted any type of in depth, objective study on, why, it's being rejected?

Are DL students doing comparatively poor in clinicals, tests, CSA, USMLE, PLAB versus their bricks and mortar counter-parts?

What does USMLE show? The USMLE is an objective testing format.

Can we break the test down into DL versus B&M?

What is the truth behind the rejections?

With real data, we can narrow this down into:

• Rejection based on ignorance. I propose we call this "negative rejection."
• Rejection based on data. Data which has been objectively processed. I propose we call this "positive rejection."

One item that can be used in this study, is that DL is used in many fields, with NO KNOWN, loss of quality in graduates ability to perform. Who say's so? Industry does. Academia does.

Yes, it's even used in nursing and in veterinary science (close counter-parts in the BASIC SCIENCES to M.D.'s). So, beyond a doubt, DL is effective. So why is DL Medicine being left to hold the bag as being useless?

On the surface it would appear that if graduates of DL-BcSC-MD programs are able to pass objective examinations, then being penalized at the end of their educational trajectory is plain, BIAS.

But, without the proper research...........then.........it won't be known, now will it?

Time for research to be done.

I would like to add that rejection is not only based on bias but also phobia and total lack of knowledge.

As an example, most of the "experts" that bash DL learning are under the wrong impression that th DL programs are being used for the entire MD program which is totally ridiculous and incorrect. It is being integrated ONLY in the basic sciences component.

What happens is the "experts" contact State Medical Boards and most likely ask the Boards..."Do you accept online medical degrees?". Of course that will catch the attention of anyone who was doing a crosswrod puzzle. As a matter of fact, one of the so called "experts" uses the phrase online medical degrees almost all the time.

Do the experts bother to explain what type of DL program is being used or or how it was incorporated into the learning process? I bet you the answer is NO. Why? Because they don't know, don't care to know and have their own agendas and believe that their Google search is the ultimate weapon in scientific and unbiased research.

The rejection is not based upon objective data but selective misinformation sent out by a few individuals with little or no knowledge on the subject and a total ignorance of what an objective and scientific research is all about.

Problems in the current models of offshore DL learning is not just objection over DL learning. Yes, there are parts of medical education that can be done via DL given our current technology. Unfortunately, the current "models"/quality of DL in offshore schools falls very, very, very, very short of the ideal DL model for medical education. To further complicate things, offshore DL programs are often combined with granting "advanced credits" for paraprofessionals in chiropractics (a favorite of DC's trying to buy an MD degree while keeping their DC practice), dentists, vet's, even nurses. These paraprofessionals spend minimum amount of time doing DL while keeping their practices -- no medical schools in the US currently allows this. So, practice is disallowed by US medical boards for good reasons.

As for using USMLE as an "objective" guide -- it's also not that simple. USMLE is very far from being an ideal way to assess quality of medical education. This is why NO medical board will grant licensure based solely on the passage of USMLE... medical education needs to be assessed as a whole, a totality of circumstances. This is why we evaluate and accredit medical schools -- to ensure that graduates meet a certain level of educational/professional...etc standards that cannot be measured by USMLE. If USMLE is such a good measure of ones ability to practice medicine, I know several PhD's who should receive medical licenses. These basic science PhD's I know have taken mock USMLE's to prove a point -- USMLE's can be passed (and even do very well) without attending medical school. These PhD's have achieved 90+ on all three steps of mock USMLE without ever setting foot into clinical education or learned the basics of physical exam. Would you want one of these PhD's to be your doctor? Of course not. So using USMLE is really not a good gauge.

Yes, DL in medicine may very well be a reality in the near future given our technology... Unfortunately, offshore schools have taken the potentially great idea and turned it into a laughing stock because of their unethical practices.

P

__________________
Jean Luc Picard
Academic Hospitalist/Assist. Professor of Medicine, Star Fleet Medical, Earth, United Federation of Planets
Borg-Certified... Resistance is Futile.

In Glock, We Trust... Everyone Else... Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them.

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We seem to have common ground, there are parts of medical education that can be done via DL given our current technology. To further complicate things, offshore DL programs are often combined with granting "advanced credits" for paraprofessionals in chiropractics, dentists.

Do you believe that the basic science components of dentists and chiropractors is inferior to those attending medical schools? If you do, can you explain. (Biochem, Anatomy, Micro, Embrio, etc)

If we take away the "granting advanced credits" element, are the DL component with some required onsite campus attendance more acceptbale?

Just a comment. I have visited many Caribbean schools and I have compared them to some Chiropractic schools in the U.S. and for my surprise the Chiroractic schools look more like mainstream U.S. Medical schools than some really dreadful schools in the Caribbean.(Better equipped and staffed, better professors, environment, library, etc).

What about clinical sciences and these PhD's you mentioned. We are not talking about sending these folks out to practice Medicine without clinical rotations. It will be ridiculous to pretend to do that.

Your comments if any, and thanks for your insightful posting.

Picard:

Upon cursory review, do you have any viable suggestions on what/which methodology could be used to asertain the quality of work (or lack of) being conducted by DL BscMD program(s) and how we can compare the quality (or lack of) to B&M education?

Taken; you disagree, that USMLE would not be a viable barometer of the "positive" or "negative" value of DL training versus B&M counterparts; suggestions are needed on HOW we can objectively asertain the quality of the education for further end result studies, but I think that for now we need to hone in on:

1. Technology being used versus Technology Available.
2. Academic Control(s) available versus Academic Control(s) being used by DL programs.
3. Is the accrediting Government aware this type of education is being conducted versus is this type of education being offered "off the record."

FORUM:

Any suggestions? Please, serious posters only.

Personal thoughts:

It would be beneficial to the subject, if we could organize from amongst this forum (and others), a group of serious individuals willing to conduct objective research into the subject. Enough personal views have been shared on the topic, but an objective study would truely hold value.


Would anyone have genuine interest in a study of this nature? What type of resources could you commit to a project like this?

A NOTE TO THE SCHOOLS THAT OFFER DL:

If you are a school official, maybe you would like to grant accsess to a study on the methodology and quality control measures being used at your school?