Did undergrad overseas but am now a US resident... help

[clark]

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Basically, I just want to know if anyone has any suggestions as to what my best pathway to try for med school would be. Any help would be great.

- I did undergrad studies in Sydney, Australia (Commerce and Science combined degree with honours in psychology [in Aus, Honours is a year-long research and coursework add on after the degree] so 5.5 years altogether
- the university I went to is one of the top in Australia but my marks were not great (drank and partied a lot in first year and had no direction, failed 2 classes (repeated them and did well but they still sadly count), then took some time off to travel and "find myself" (sorry for the cliche) and then came back to school and did awesome in the rest of it, and although my school used a COMPLETELY different grading system to the 4 point GPA, I just worked out that I should roughly have a gpa of around 2.9 - 3.1 (do trends matter? my marks got much better after first year)
- I have permanent residency in the US and am married to a US citizen, who is a (PGY3) MD so I wouldn't need a visa or anything

Although I do have somewhat of a science background, I wouldn't have done all the necessary premed classes, and from what I understand I would still need to do a pre-med course in the US. How would I maximize my chances of getting into an MD school... by just doing a post-bac premed program, or would I have to redo an ENTIRE 4 year bachelor degree with a premed pathway? If I took the latter route, would only my US university GPA count? Or would my mediocre past GPA from Aus still come back to haunt me?

Additional information:
-will be turning 24
-had a highschool HSC score of 93 (93rd percentile), I think that would be a GPA somewhere between 3.3 and 3.8 (the scoring systems are SO difficult to compare as they are completely different).
-live in NYC
-would be looking to apply for autumn 2010

Thank you!

[swimchick]

Originally Posted by clark

Basically, I just want to know if anyone has any suggestions as to what my best pathway to try for med school would be. Any help would be great.

- I did undergrad studies in Sydney, Australia (Commerce and Science combined degree with honours in psychology [in Aus, Honours is a year-long research and coursework add on after the degree] so 5.5 years altogether
- the university I went to is one of the top in Australia but my marks were not great (drank and partied a lot in first year and had no direction, failed 2 classes (repeated them and did well but they still sadly count), then took some time off to travel and "find myself" (sorry for the cliche) and then came back to school and did awesome in the rest of it, and although my school used a COMPLETELY different grading system to the 4 point GPA, I just worked out that I should roughly have a gpa of around 2.9 - 3.1 (do trends matter? my marks got much better after first year)
- I have permanent residency in the US and am married to a US citizen, who is a (PGY3) MD so I wouldn't need a visa or anything

Although I do have somewhat of a science background, I wouldn't have done all the necessary premed classes, and from what I understand I would still need to do a pre-med course in the US. How would I maximize my chances of getting into an MD school... by just doing a post-bac premed program, or would I have to redo an ENTIRE 4 year bachelor degree with a premed pathway? If I took the latter route, would only my US university GPA count? Or would my mediocre past GPA from Aus still come back to haunt me?

Additional information:
-will be turning 24
-had a highschool HSC score of 93 (93rd percentile), I think that would be a GPA somewhere between 3.3 and 3.8 (the scoring systems are SO difficult to compare as they are completely different).
-live in NYC
-would be looking to apply for autumn 2010

Thank you!

Well, first things first. Since you don't have your pre-reqs done, it won't be possible for you to apply for fall 2010 admission to a US school. The 2010 admission cycle has already begun.

You are correct in that your medical school pre-reqs should be completed in the US (most schools also accept Canadian credits). However, there is no need for you to complete another 4-year degree. There are plenty of postbaccalaureate programs for people who haven't completed the basic med school reqs. You should look for a program that also offers letters of recommendation and MCAT preparation. Since you are in NYC, you might to check out the programs at CUNY Hunter and NYU.

Your high school record won't matter, but your previous university grades will because you are required to report to AMCAS (the med school app service) all university-level coursework you've completed. Trends are important, so even though your GPA is low, the upward trend is good.

If this a route you want to pursue, you'll have to put in a lot of work. You need to rock your PB program and the MCAT. If you haven't already, start searching out opportunities for clinical experience and (if you have time) non-clinical volunteer work.

Good luck!

[clark]

Hi,

thanks a lot for replying.

Just wanted to add, would be looking at starting the premed post bac in fall 2010 (rather than med school itself, since I have the extra classes to do first). Is it already too late to apply for that? If so, I would try for whenever the next possible entry semester was after that point. What I am worried about though, is (with a foreign degree) even getting to the point of getting into one of the post-bac programs. Most of them list GPAs of well above 3 to even get in. Does the "quality" of the school you do the postbac at matter? Or, is it more a case of as long as you have proven you can do well, it doesn't matter as much where you did it?

Also, I have quite a few years of volunteer experience both in a children's hospital in Australia, and a psych hospital (through my psychology studies) and could get them to write letters to verify that. How much does that sort of a thing realistically count though? (volunteer work and community involvement)? Because I was very active in that sort of a thing- probably shouldn't have been and it might have left me with more time to study

I'm not sure if I'm right, but I kind of got the impression that they pretty much only looked at that kind of stuff once they looked at the GPA, and if you have a GPA that's good, they then use the extra stuff to differentiate the good candidates from the excellent ones. Is that sort of how it is?

Thank you!!

[swimchick]

Originally Posted by clark

Hi,

thanks a lot for replying.

Just wanted to add, would be looking at starting the premed post bac in fall 2010 (rather than med school itself, since I have the extra classes to do first). Is it already too late to apply for that? If so, I would try for whenever the next possible entry semester was after that point. What I am worried about though, is (with a foreign degree) even getting to the point of getting into one of the post-bac programs. Most of them list GPAs of well above 3 to even get in. Does the "quality" of the school you do the postbac at matter? Or, is it more a case of as long as you have proven you can do well, it doesn't matter as much where you did it?

Also, I have quite a few years of volunteer experience both in a children's hospital in Australia, and a psych hospital (through my psychology studies) and could get them to write letters to verify that. How much does that sort of a thing realistically count though? (volunteer work and community involvement)? Because I was very active in that sort of a thing- probably shouldn't have been and it might have left me with more time to study

I'm not sure if I'm right, but I kind of got the impression that they pretty much only looked at that kind of stuff once they looked at the GPA, and if you have a GPA that's good, they then use the extra stuff to differentiate the good candidates from the excellent ones. Is that sort of how it is?

Thank you!!

It's definitely not too late to apply for a post-bacc program with a fall 2010 start date. I would start researching programs now to make sure you meet their entrance requirements. There are programs who will review applicants with a sub-3.0 GPA on a case-by-base basis. I don't feel that where you do your post-bacc can hurt you (but I'm sure there are others who feel the opposite). I think as long as you can perform very well in the coursework and achieve a competitive score on the MCAT, you'll be able to show med schools you can handle the coursework.

Volunteer work is a very important component of the medical school application. As a physician, you will spend the rest of your working life serving your patients. If medical schools see no clinical exposure or volunteer work on your app, how will they know you are dedicated to a career in medicine? However, a fantastic record of service can't completely override subpar academics.

Medical school admission is complicated. Some schools screen applicants for their grades/MCAT before sending a secondary while others allow everyone to do a secondary then screen. Some schools are very numbers heavy (ex. WashU in St. Louis) while others aren't. The trick is to get your numbers within competitive range, and then choose your schools wisely.

[dadoc]

No offense, but I know people with 3.5 GPA's and Fairly good MCAT grades who dont get into a US MD program, dont expect much at all. Especially, if you look at almost every university in the US, they will tell you that you need to have done some of your undergrad in the US. Even with that, the chances of an international student (and yes, even though you have PR or are now a citizen, seeing as you did your schooling elsewhere, you are one) is about 8-10% and those guys have 3.8+ GPAs.

Best option, is do a 2 year course in college, destroy the MCATS and get in. Then your chances are about 80-90% (assuming you do well). Right now, your on about 10-15% chance.

[dadoc]

Oh, 1 more thing. They dont care about trends. No one does. First thing they look at is numbers, if they are strong, they will give you a chance to explain yourself, but until then, its a numbers game.

[swimchick]

Originally Posted by dadoc

Oh, 1 more thing. They dont care about trends. No one does. First thing they look at is numbers, if they are strong, they will give you a chance to explain yourself, but until then, its a numbers game.

I respectfully disagree. The information I have regarding the importance of trends came directly from admissions committee members at different US medical schools. Sure, for some schools it's a numbers game and you'll get cut if you don't meet their GPA requirements. But there are other schools (like the one I work at) that take a lot into consideration before even offering the interview...and yes, GPA trend is one of those factors.

OP: I also wanted to mention that depending how far you are below the 3.0 mark, you might want to see about taking a few college classes before applying to the post-bacc programs. Medical schools like to see applicants with a significant amount of humanities coursework. Those classes would be fairly easy and a nice way to bump up your GPA.

Also, if you can't get in to a formal PB program, you can do it on your own. There are a lot of ways to make it happen

[vivek105]

If you are not able to get into Medicine in USA then you would like to Consider Europe or Asia.
PROS:
You can do your MD degree in these countries in 6 years after 12 years of School education - So you save 2 years as compared to the USA.
It is much easier to get in.
It is much cheaper to study in many countries of Europe and Asia than the USA.

Cons:
You have to give USMLE after graduation with a medical degree outside the US and then register in the state. So find out about the USLME and licensing requirements.

If you don't do well in USMLE you may not get residency in a field of your choice - you need to find out about this.

Most of the East European countries are really low cost as compared to the USA. You could check out Ukraine where the fees are as low as 3000 $ a YEAR. (Yes - a year - not a semester). Food and cost of life will set you back another 2500 $ a year.

www.ifnmu.com - Ivano Frankivsk National Medical University - Ukraine