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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KluverB
You think that's those dang-fer'ners scr*wing up? If that was the case, no IMG would get in anywhere near a patient around here.
Sadly, there is a controversial study that says otherwise.

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...ract/164/6/653

Quote:
Characteristics Associated With Physician Discipline
A Case-Control Study

Arch Intern Med. 2004;164:653-658.

Background There has been increasing attention devoted to patient safety. However, the focus has been on system improvements rather than individual physician performance issues. The purpose of this study was to determine if there is an association between certain physician characteristics and the likelihood of medical board–imposed discipline. Methods Unmatched, case-control study of 890 physicians disciplined by the Medical Board of California between July 1, 1998, and June 30, 2001, compared with 2981 randomly selected, nondisciplined controls. Odds ratios (ORs) were calculated for physician discipline with respect to age, sex, board certification, international medical school education, and specialty.
Results Male sex (OR, 2.76; P<.001), lack of board certification (OR, 2.22; P<.001), increasing age (OR, 1.64; P<.001), and international medical school education (OR, 1.36; P<.001) were associated with an elevated risk for disciplinary action that included license revocation, practice suspension, probation, and public reprimand. The following specialties had an increased risk for discipline compared with internal medicine: family practice (OR, 1.68; P = .002); general practice (OR, 1.97, P = .001); obstetrics and gynecology (OR, 2.25; P<.001); and psychiatry (OR, 1.87; P<.001). Physicians in pediatrics (OR, 0.62; P = .001) and radiology (OR, 0.36; P<.001) were less likely to receive discipline compared with those in internal medicine.
Conclusion Certain physician characteristics and medical specialties are associated with an increased likelihood of discipline.
Now, as to why there was a greater risk of disciplinary action is a whole different ball game. I think that one of the reasons, is that as foreigners with accents and differing cultural habits (especially 'colored' ones) they are viewed as outsiders and more vulnerable to discipline, while at the same time lacking the defenses a native might have.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:13 AM
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jeez, miklos, no offense b/c you really know your stuff, but you are such a god damn pessimist. LOL

in addition to intern. med. ed. it also cites being a male and older age as being at a heightened risk of disciplinary action. i guess just cuz im a guy i should be on my toes . . .

cheer up a bit, i think if you work hard, even if you go to poznan or any other interanational med school, and know your pooh pooh, you'll be fine. why are you so bitter, you went to school in europe right?
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2006, 01:58 PM
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Other studies they site don't seem to support this argument. Also, there are some statistically significant differences between cases and controls in this study to begin with: age (56 vs. 50; sooner or later everyone gets sued, and looses), IMG status (27 vs. 20%). Maybe it should all come out in the wash, but I think they're doing some fudging, 'cause I'm not sure how they came up with and OR=1.36, by my calculation it's more like 1.44... but supposedly they use IMs as an internal control... oh who knows...
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syztem shack
jeez, miklos, no offense b/c you really know your stuff, but you are such a god damn pessimist. LOL

in addition to intern. med. ed. it also cites being a male and older age as being at a heightened risk of disciplinary action. i guess just cuz im a guy i should be on my toes . . .

cheer up a bit, i think if you work hard, even if you go to poznan or any other interanational med school, and know your pooh pooh, you'll be fine. why are you so bitter, you went to school in europe right?
I think that I'm not making my point well enough, so please let me try again.

Read this letter to the editor of the American Society of Anesthesiologists newsletter (I chanced upon it, looking for the link to the study above -- all praise google!).

http://www.asahq.org/Newsletters/200.../lte11_04.html

Quote:
AMG/IMG Controversy Continues

In response to Dr. Bacon’s May 2004 editorial, I do not think it is racist or xenophobic to be concerned about too many international medical graduates (IMGs) in our residencies. I am concerned about graduating people who will harm public perception of our specialty and potentially imperil patient safety.

Dependence on IMGs is clearly a sign of noncompetitiveness in a specialty. Now that anesthesiology has regained some popularity among American medical graduates (AMGs) in the National Resident Match Program, it is a mistake to continue taking IMGs in a quest to fill every possible spot.

Dr. Bacon asks, “Is not everyone equal to a U.S. graduate after completing residency training?” The answer is an unequivocal “No.” Many of the IMGs who were allowed to graduate in the past five years were of awful quality. But unless you get caught using fentanyl, most residents are allowed to graduate however low their competence. There is no written examination required to graduate. While 80 percent of AMGs pass the written boards on the first try, less than 60 percent of IMGs do so — if they even take the examination. Perhaps the American Board of Anesthesiology (ABA) could provide data about the percentage of AMGs versus IMGs who become board-certified within three years of graduating.

Studies have shown that ABA certification is a valid indicator of clinical competence and that board-certified physicians are less likely to face malpractice suits or state board discipline. Residencies are not helping society if they graduate physicians who are intellectually incapable of achieving board certification. Studies also have shown that IMGs are more likely to face disciplinary actions.

While the board-certified IMGs that Dr. Bacon works with at Mayo are obviously all good physicians, they are not representative of the average IMGs who have graduated in recent years. By graduating these sub-par individuals, we do our specialty a huge disservice since the public will begin to think of anesthesiologists as incompetent doctors who speak poor English. And how can we argue that these people are providing safer anesthesia than an unsupervised nurse anesthetist? If we can only match 1,000 AMGs, then that is a number we should be happy with; there is no need to take 120 IMGs to fill all the available slots. Let us aim for quality instead of quantity.

Name withheld by request

References:

1. Kohatsu ND, et al. Characteristics associated with physician discipline. Arch of Int Med. 2004; 164:653-658.

2. Morrison J, Wickersham P. Physicians disciplined by a state medical board. JAMA. 1998; 279:1889-1893.

3. Silber A, et al. Anesthesiologist board certification and patient outcomes. Anesthesiology. 2002; 96:1044-1052.
Sadly, this is how some AMGs view IMGs. As you are soon going to come overseas for your medical education, you might as well be prepared for this sort of thing now. Actually, worse is when you are in the process for applying for a residency position and you see choice places put up the equivalent of INNA (in this case, IMGs need not apply) signs on their websites.

Last edited by Miklos; 08-14-2006 at 05:00 PM.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2006, 05:28 PM
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miklos, believe me i understand what you're saying. In my case however, im not going to get hung up over what a bunch of snotty, ignorant elitist pricks thinks. i plan to go to poland, study hard while enjoying my time there, pass the USMLE, get a decent residency - im not shooting for the stars here - im not too fond of going into god knows what residency and whatever number of years of fellowship afterwards just to be a super respected triple board certified pediatric cardio surgeon taht makes $750K / year. All i want is nice ok paying position in the geographic area of my choice. 3-4 years of res and im done most likely. and once you leave for private practice it matters even less where you went to school . . . what do ya think?

- Greg
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2006, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syztem shack
miklos, believe me i understand what you're saying. In my case however, im not going to get hung up over what a bunch of snotty, ignorant elitist pricks thinks. i plan to go to poland, study hard while enjoying my time there, pass the USMLE, get a decent residency - im not shooting for the stars here - im not too fond of going into god knows what residency and whatever number of years of fellowship afterwards just to be a super respected triple board certified pediatric cardio surgeon taht makes $750K / year. All i want is nice ok paying position in the geographic area of my choice. 3-4 years of res and im done most likely. and once you leave for private practice it matters even less where you went to school . . . what do ya think?

- Greg
I'm sure you'll do well. Just keep your goals in mind and work towards them. And yes, private practice is a whole different ballgame.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2006, 04:03 AM
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im sorry but..

im sorry..but i am 100 percent sure that there is no poznan graduates from the english program EVER to enter a dermatology residency..not trying to push any buttons here as to the education..im sure it is wonderful, but that is definitely misinformation, as i have researched the field for the past 8 or 9 years and i am aware of EVERY SINGLE FMG that matches into derm. year after year since then..good luck..
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2006, 08:54 AM
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Who in their right mind would want to do derm?

It's icky.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2006, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josephmedman
im sorry..but i am 100 percent sure that there is no poznan graduates from the english program EVER to enter a dermatology residency..not trying to push any buttons here as to the education..im sure it is wonderful, but that is definitely misinformation, as i have researched the field for the past 8 or 9 years and i am aware of EVERY SINGLE FMG that matches into derm. year after year since then..good luck..
agreed. ill take your word for it. but lets not make derm the holy grail here, i for one have absolutely no desire to ever try to get a derm residency.
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