Medical Schools in Poland help? - Page 5

Rand79 · #41 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 07:09 PM

gvanderv and josephmedman,
Thanks for both of your inputs. I see the differences between the Polish schools reach a point of splitting hairs. I realize that if I did choose to go to a non-US medical program, the most convenient for me, with the best quality education, would be one of those listed in the Caribbean. However, those will be my last choice as my main impetus (other than taking the mcat) is the fact that I would like to live in a European city. As mentioned earlier, unless I start hearing better news, I will consider just taking the MCAT and applying for medical school in the US. It may be possible to enter into a one-year Master's program in the UK this fall in neuroscience. This would enhance my research experience (research will be included in my career), possibly satisfy my desire to be abroad, and possibly help my med school application.
I am very eager to hear the comments of the director tomorrow morning also; hopefully I will have a much better picture. It is easy to quote matches of IMGs, but I am also very curious about their grades, USMLE scores, etc. If it is the case that there is a much lower average of overall scores/credentials from IMGs, then it would be no wonder you see few of them matched in competitive residencies.

opuscule · #42 (**permalink**) 05-17-2005, 07:10 PM

Medman. Don't want to put you on the spot but it seems like you have some valuable experience as a grad, so I'm hoping you'll share with those of us who are just getting started. You wrote something about regretting not doing Step 1 before starting your rotations. Why is that, and when did you complete your step 1? Did you take advantage of the full two years in the US? What are you doing your residency in now, and how did your experience through HMI help you secure that spot?

josephmedman · #43 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 12:27 PM

i think i received a decent education in Poland..It was not easy by no means..Certain subjects were great, certain subjects were taught horribly..i think you will get that at any school..I got that in undergrad. as well..my only regret was that I was able to do rotations without my board exam, therefore at the end, when it came time to write my board exam after i graduated it was really really tough to get my act together and remember all the basic sciences i had studied 4 years prior..i would not recommend it to anyone..I def. took the lazy way out..As for residencies..As far as I know ER is one of the most comp. spots available..look up raj geria at downstate med center..a grad from my school..beat out many americans for that spot..there is a neurology resident bilal patel from my class in the university of louiville a great program and his home town in case anyone wonders why he would go to kentucky..rads resident xenon upanjua at temple from my class...radiology resident andrew gomes in shrevport LA..these spots are no joke..sachin patel..resident in opthamology at downstate from my school..as far as i know there is only ONE person int he history of even st. georges that has gotten opthomology int he last 25 years..see the thing is..regardless of the caliber of the school's teaching, european schools have great tradiation and are very old, and residency directors appreciate that..rather than carib schools which are specifically designed to pump out grads who didnt get into US schools..i can speak fluent hungarian and some polish..these can never be a bad thing..as for me..i am starting prelim in somerset NJ and then will move to houston for neuro..take care..

Rand79 · #44 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 12:52 PM

Those are all good programs. I am not going to give up on Polish schools so easily, but I just keep getting very negative comments on the matter. When speaking with an advisor today, he informed me that despite credentials, he would be much more likely to put a student from an eastern european country ahead of a stack of a caribbean grad. applications...as caribbean medical schools are "an alternative for obvious reasons" (and we all know that is not always the case). Though that was followed up with his comment on putting US grad applications ahead of an E. European app., unless the application was just shining. I just have to weigh my options and consider what is going to be best for my career and what is going to be best for my life....and where those two converge.

mutig25 · #45 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gvanderv

Hey dthomas,

I love this quote:

"Furthermore, the crowd that gets selected in Caribbean is extremely competitive and determined with keen interest in medicine. (Most of them were in the first cut-off in the US applicant pool), whereas the accepted students for a six-year program in Poland lack the exposure to college education and the intense medical school education, and the ones that are accepted for a four year programs have yet not taken the MCAT and don’t have their bachelors."

I guess our USMLE first time scores from Poland would be worse. Because we really don't know why we are here..........right. Please!!!

It doesn't really matter what the pass rates are...........how you score is what matters. If you are so worried about all this stay in the states. Europe might be a little too intense for you.

Bye.........Gerry

I second that. And just for the record, I was accepted to both Saba and Ross and decided to go to PUMS instead. So it just goes to show that 4-year Polish students are not U.S. or Caribbean rejects.

mutig25 · #46 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephmedman

oh yeah..i forgot to mention..poznan uses some agent from NY as well so beware..i did nto down play poznan..i actually like the city a lot..it is beautiful and friendly..my point is htat there are NO US ROTATIONS..think what you may..this is honest word here..take care..

You don't know what you're talking about.

PUMS allows for one year (during fourth year) for students to do their rotations abroad. We have an affilition currently with the University of llinois at Chicago for students to do rotations in the U.S. and are currently in negotiations with the University of Pennsylvania and Cornell, as well.

mutig25 · #47 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephmedman

if you goto the NY dept. of education website you will see that only 2 schools are approved to do extended clerkships in NY state in ALL of europe..that is silisia and lublin..poznan allows you to do 12 weeks of rotation electives in america..please check with the school..i am sure of that..my friend goes there if you need more info you can talk to him..
I spent 3 years in poland..i also interviewed with an indian man there in NY..and he WAS NOT the president..he was def. an agent..as i said, the city is beautiful but the studies are poor..they are not even NY state accredited..i am a physician graduate from warsaw and my ranking is still
1. krakow
2. warsaw
3. silisia
4. wroclaw
5. poznan.

my premed was done in debrecen in case anyone needs info on that..
i say go carib..or DO if the option is available..

Gerry and I are both on the PUMS ASG Student Government and can attest to the fact that school has just opened up the entire fourth year to elective rotations abroad, so we're no longer limited to 12 weeks. Don't believe me? Call the Dean's office in Poland or the admissions office in New York. Click on the link, and you'll find the numbers.

http://www.mdprogram.com/md/index.shtml

Is this problematic for the school in terms of the 12 week rule in New York State. Of course it is, and that's why the school is working to get hospital affiliations in New York and to get on the state's approval list. However, New York is simply one state. Students who choose to do residency and gain licensure elsewhere are welcome to perform up to one year of elective rotations, provided that is congruent with the laws of the state where they wish to perform residency and/or gain licensure.

mutig25 · #48 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephmedman

nothing is my problem but i am telling you..i promie..5 years ago when i applied i had an interview in purchase NY with some indian guy who wanted 1500 dollars fee..maybe things changed but thats how it was..can you tell me what hospitals poznan is affiliated with since you can do a year so you claim..the hospitals i rotated at were wycoff hospital in NY, St. Johns hospital in NY, Youngestown Hospital in Ohio..we also have jackson park hospital in chicago, and st. anthony's hospital in chicago..also..st. agnes in Maryland and griffin in connecticut..does yoru school have an official agreement with any hospitals..if nto i knwo for a fact Illinois and New York will not accept the rotations over 12 weeks..if you do more than 12 weeks, Ill. and NY state will not accept non affiliated rotations..they MUST be officially affiliated..
this is why i am telling all that are considering schools other than the caribbean..please do your research harcore..licensing is very picky and a friend of mine from hungary had a law suit brought against him because he exceeded 12 weeks..you can obtain yoru own rotations, but it is very difficult..i do not know any hospitals that allow you to rotate without a school affiliation..if poznan has any clinical affiliations please list them so people can do their own research before attending..any school can claim to allow US rotations..i listed hospitals..please do the same..thank
you..

I realize that things may have been different when you supposedly applied. but listen to us because we go to school here NOW.

THIS IS HOW IT IS NOW:

1. There are no agents. You can interview at the NY office or directly in Poznan. It's up to you. Either way, the tuition fees are the same.
2. Nobody ever said we have affiliated hospitals in New York. We have our oun teaching hospitals in Poznan, so if you wish to do electives abroad, then you do the work. The school will not hold your hand through the process.
3. Yes, in the past the school allowed for 12 weeks of elective rotations abroad, but now they have opened up the entire 4th year of the 4-year program (this doesn't apply to the 6 year program) to elective rotations abroad. You don't believe me, then call the office in New York or Poland. Hey, and why you're at it, have your "buddy" who is supposedly going to school here in Poznan do it as well because apparently he/she is not aware of the new policy.

So, please don't argue with us about PUMS according to old information or hear-say. I think we know better about this school than you.

josephmedman · #49 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 03:59 PM

i just called up the university of chicago, as well as upenn and cornell's weil college of medicine and the only school that allows ANY IMG's to rotate is the University of Chicago. The other two never have as of this date and have never even heard of KMU..please do not get peoples hopes up with such lies..The University of Chicago also told me that there is no such affiliation with KMU..please talk to Dr. Brain Kelton..head of the clinical department at the university of chicago if you do not believe me..an official affiliation means much paper work between the university and the hospital..there are lawyers involved and state laws to abide by..there is such thing as a verbal affiliation but that limits the student as to what he may be able to do post graduation..if you do not see the paper itself with the hospitals signature on it, it is NOT an official affiliation..this is jsut a warning to all who intend to exceed 12 weeks because the 12 week law is for NY, Chicago, Pennsylvania, california, new Mexico, texas, florida, and louisiana..and thats just as far as i know..please do not exceed 12 weeks unless you see a written agreement with your own eyes..as i said, you can set up your own rotations, hungary even allowed students to do that..but whether or not that state accepts it is a whole different story..As i said, please call up the office of The University of Chicago and see for yourself..There is no such affiliation..Jackson Park Hospital will grant verbal affiliations to new schools but NO new written affiliations due to a mess with a couple of schools and they are only affiliated with Chicago Med..so that can't even be the school this person who "supposedly" has an affiliation is talking about..

bottom line..dont believe anyone on this forum...even me if you dont feel it..do your OWN research..people will guide you the wrong way always bceause of their subjective opinions such as these KMU students who are making false claims of affiliations..please beware all..take care
As for these alleged affiliations

mutig25 · #50 (**permalink**) 05-18-2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephmedman

i just called up the university of chicago, as well as upenn and cornell's weil college of medicine and the only school that allows ANY IMG's to rotate is the University of Chicago. The other two never have as of this date and have never even heard of KMU..please do not get peoples hopes up with such lies..The University of Chicago also told me that there is no such affiliation with KMU..please talk to Dr. Brain Kelton..head of the clinical department at the university of chicago if you do not believe me..an official affiliation means much paper work between the university and the hospital..there are lawyers involved and state laws to abide by..there is such thing as a verbal affiliation but that limits the student as to what he may be able to do post graduation..if you do not see the paper itself with the hospitals signature on it, it is NOT an official affiliation..this is jsut a warning to all who intend to exceed 12 weeks because the 12 week law is for NY, Chicago, Pennsylvania, california, new Mexico, texas, florida, and louisiana..and thats just as far as i know..please do not exceed 12 weeks unless you see a written agreement with your own eyes..as i said, you can set up your own rotations, hungary even allowed students to do that..but whether or not that state accepts it is a whole different story..As i said, please call up the office of The University of Chicago and see for yourself..There is no such affiliation..Jackson Park Hospital will grant verbal affiliations to new schools but NO new written affiliations due to a mess with a couple of schools and they are only affiliated with Chicago Med..so that can't even be the school this person who "supposedly" has an affiliation is talking about..

bottom line..dont believe anyone on this forum...even me if you dont feel it..do your OWN research..people will guide you the wrong way always bceause of their subjective opinions such as these KMU students who are making false claims of affiliations..please beware all..take care
As for these alleged affiliations

Interesting , we don't have an affiliation. Maybe try calling the right university.

--- Monica Mason-Hayden <mmason@uic.edu> wrote:
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:06:55 -0600
> To: xxxxxxx
> From: Monica Mason-Hayden <mmason@uic.edu>
> Subject: Re: affiliation agreement inquiry
>
> Hello xxxxx,
>
> Yes, your medical school has an affiliation with the
> University of Illinois
> College of Medicine. We have had several students
> from Pozan University of
> Medical Sciences participate in clinical electives.
>
> At 2/17/2005 03:23 PM, you wrote:
> >Dear Ms. Mason-Hayden:
> >
> >Can you tell me whether my medical university has
> already established or
> >is in the process of establishing an affiliation
> agreement with the
> >University of Illinois College of Medicine? I am a
> first year student at
> >Karol Marcinkowski University of Medical Sciences
> (aka Poznan University
> >of Medical Sciences) located in Poznan, Poland.
> >
> >Thank you in advance for your time and assistance
> with my inquiry.
> >
> >Kindest Regards,
> >
> >xxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Search presents -
> ><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=30648/*http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/jibjabinaugural.html>Jib
>
> >Jab's 'Second Term'
>
>
> Monica Mason-Hayden
> Visiting Students Program Coordinator/
> Faculty Advisor Coordinator
> Assistant to the Associate Dean
> University of Illinois at Chicago
> College of Medicine
> Office of Academic Student Affairs (MC 785)
> Room 112 College of Medicine West
> 1853 West Polk Street
> Chicago, Illinois 60612-7332
> (312) 355-1136
> (312) 413-3787 Fax
> mailto:mmason@uic.edu

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