Thread: Hope Medical Institute - Be Careful!

I placed this thread first in Lublin forum, but its a subject of Polish Medical Schools forum, so I wanted to place it here again. Sorry for the repititive threads.

I wrote here what I saw. This writing needs your personal processing, as others do as well.

1) Hope Medical Institute, HMI, is an agency. Like its peers, it provides a sercive which you can get on your own or over your school too, and charges for that service and makes money over this way. The point is that, its not only a cooperation between HMI and school, its a relationship between HMI and student, so student himself/herself pays for what they buy. HMI undertakes the US clinicals leg of some E-EU schools' programs, which is undertaken by some other E-EU schools directly and without any extra charge. Over that way they open a route for less/non-competitive/misfortunate US citizens to find a by-pass to get in US medical system.

2) The rumours go that, HMI makes favours to the students to make them provide benefits for HMI (like getting new prospectives to HMI). I think the ethics here is limited with the ethical stance of the student himself/herself; they may be honest, but may lie or twist as well. My observations make me think as well that this kind of relations may exist around.

3) Its established in 1995 (no info on HMI website, to look well-rooted, they constantly say "for many years").

4) They are affiliated with 4 med schools in E-EU which admit students with very very low criteria (like 15 MCAT). The schools are: Lublin, Silesia, Pomeranian, Bialystok; there was Debrecen as well, but I think that affiliation is ended.

5) Today in their 17 years of past, they could place 232 residents in US medical system, of whom 68 in Family Medicine, 89 in Internal and 77 in all other specialties. Appr.13-14 residents/year (though there may be a raising trend in time, but a steep trend is not likely). If only in one hospital, Wyckoff Heights, there are 70-80 students from HMI, then where do that 56-66 students evaporate at the end of clerkship?
(About total resident number: I came to a conclusion that the number of residents should be limited with what they placed in HMI website, 232, because Family and Internal Medicine are the specialties which are not that in high demand in US. In that 232 residents list, appr. 2 out of 3 are placed in those two specialties. If they would have more and better residents, I think they would naturally boast with them in both quality and quantity.)

6) Their cost is much higher then any med school in E-EU which affiliates with US hospitals individually without HMI or any other agent, because HMI undertakes the US-affiliation part of the E-EU universities for 82 weeks of US Clinical Experience, which is an offical pre-requisite for residency match in US (not as 82 week, actually 12/24 weeks are said to fit for residency matchs very well).
1st and 2nd years tuition fees = 4*$10.950 = appr. $44.000 (in the affiliated medical schools abroad, like Lublin, Silecia)
3rd and 4th year tution fees = (It doesnt take place in the website of Lublin, but regarding one of the posts of a 4th year student, its $19.000/year) 2*$19.000 = $38.000
3rd and 4th years = 82*$850 = appr. $70.000 ($850/week)
Institution Fee (one-time) = $10.000
Registration fee = $500
Rotation fee (one-time) = $1.000
Total fees = $125.500 or if they get 3rd/4th year tuitions as well its $163.500
The total above is only school+agent fees, it doesnt cover the payments for books, visa processes, flight tickets or living expenses.
(BTW, you can get the same US Clinical Experiences by getting in contact with the hospitals on your own as well, or your school itself may have affiliations with US hospitals and place you in an affiliated hospital in US for no extra charge.)

7) An important number of the students who use HMI route for 82 weeks of US Clinical Experience and go US, probably wont make it to the last point, residency match. If the claims of HMI people is true, then 70-80 of those students (this number is only in Wyckoff Heights in US, I dont know the total) go to US for USCE, but regarding ECFMG data (the organization from which an MD who graduates from a non-US school needs to get certificate by taking USMLE tests) all of the non-Polish graduates of all of the Polish med schools who could pass USMLE (not get residency yet!) are 79 in 2010. If more than 70-80 are coming only from HMI in 2012, then there must be a negligible number of grads from the Polish schools other than the affiliates of HMI, which is not reasonable. Either this 70-80 students' rotation is a lie, or HMI is a bleeding route for students. Which means, to pay a lot of money to lose at the end!

8) Clinical Setting in US : Regarding a Lublin student, HMI group (Lublin, Silesia et al.) basically are at Wyckoff Heights Medical Center. As a 350-bed center, its way far to be a university hospital. It serves to a diversified community and by that regard provides/may provide a wealth of cases in specific fields like infectious diseases or genetics, though how far I dont know, but because of the limitations of the infrastructure (they boast in their official website with recently having an MRI unit!) its impossible to have the spectrum of cases you can see in a university hospital. An acceptible university hospital never get down to that capacity, otherwise they cant teach really. Just as an example:

Wyckoff Heights (other affiliates of HMI are similar as well)
350 beds (adult+children) - 75.000 outpatients/year

Jagiellonian (many other universities are similar as well) -
1890 beds (adult+children) - 510.000 outpatients/year

For my comments on the clinical setting presentation of HMI:
http://www.valuemd.com/medical-unive...ml#post1438900
(actually I suggest you to read all of the thread topdown, its beneficial.)

9) FOR NON_US CITIZENS : As with Carib. schools as well, the non-US citizens always have a risk of being stopped at visa barrier. If they have to stop at that point (or any point which I cant see), because they have gotten in the expensive track(with the expectation of USCE at 3rd and 4th years of 4-year program or 5th and 6th years of 6-year program) at first place, they will be have payed for 1st, 2nd and 3rd years more than regular fees (or 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th in 6-year program), but wont make it to US. Those fees are nonrefundable, they pay, and hit the head to the wall and cant get their money back.
____________________________

Until now it was all about a company, HMI. It may operate ethically or not, it works well for the students or not, thats the evaluation of a company. It sells this service, we may take it or leave it. But with Lublin, we cant leave HMI, we are bound to pay for it as well!

I didnt check other E-EU affiliates of HMI, but Lublin drives the North American students to that company. If you are North American and want to have your med education in Lublin, then you dont have another route other than HMI (actually not only North Americans, but all of the applicants who plans to have USCE in US as well, because they will have to apply Lublin only over HMI). Besides, even if you choose to have your 3rd and 4th year rotations in Poland, still you pay $144/week to HMI beside $418/week to Lublin. It seems so that Lublin feeds HMI with the money of irrelevant students as well. I think Lublin is running a profitable business rather than a university. This year they raised the 6-year program's fees 1.000Euros, from 9.000 to 10.000Euros as well.

For now and with this much information, I find Lublin pretty much unethical.

As for personal application and arrangement of electives (USCE) in US, there are a load of schools that provide this for way lower fees. Even Cornell, one of the universities HMI affiliates with provides three 4-week electives, which makes up 12 weeks of USCE, and guess what, if you yourself arrange it, it takes $6.000 (every elective is $2.000), while if you do it over HMI/Lublin couple, it goes up to 12*$850=$10.200.. the extra $4.200 goes to HMI/Lublin couple for making this arrangement for you.

Just beware...

"Wyckoff" refers to the teaching hospital in New York. It is not a new medical school program.

Originally Posted by bidiboom

I placed this thread first in Lublin forum, but its a subject of Polish Medical Schools forum, so I wanted to place it here again. Sorry for the repititive threads.


6) Their cost is much higher then any med school in E-EU which affiliates with US hospitals individually without HMI or any other agent, because HMI undertakes the US-affiliation part of the E-EU universities for 82 weeks of US Clinical Experience, which is an offical pre-requisite for residency match in US (not as 82 week, actually 12/24 weeks are said to fit for residency matchs very well).
1st and 2nd years tuition fees = 2*$10.950 = appr. $22.000 (in the affiliated medical schools abroad, like Lublin, Silecia)
3rd and 4th year tution fees = (It doesnt take place in the website of Lublin, but regarding one of the posts of a 4th year student, its $19.000/year) 2*$19.000 = $38.000
3rd and 4th years = 82*$850 = appr. $70.000 ($850/week)
Institution Fee (one-time) = $10.000
Registration fee = $500
Rotation fee (one-time) = $1.000
Total fees = $103.500 or if they get 3rd/4th year tuitions as well its $141.500
The total above is only school+agent fees, it doesnt cover the payments for books, visa processes, flight tickets or living expenses.
(BTW, you can get the same US Clinical Experiences by getting in contact with the hospitals on your own as well, or your school itself may have affiliations with US hospitals and place you in an affiliated hospital in US for no extra charge.)


___

Great research bidiboom. I'd like to nail down the precise cost of the fixed tuition and fees as of now. From the HMI website data, I calculate the total 4-year tuition and fees cost at HMI's Polish schools as:

HMI-USCE
Yr 1 $21,950 (2x $10,950)
Yr 2 $21,950 (2x $10,950)
Yr 3 $34,809 (41 weeks x $842)
Yr 4 $34,809 (41 weeks x $842)
$10,000 non-refundable program fee
Total = $123,418

HMI- Polish Clinicals
Yr 1 $21,950 (2x $10,950)
Yr 2 $21,950 (2x $10,950)
Yr 3 $23,042 (41 weeks x $562)
Yr 4 $23,042 (41 weeks x $562)
$10,000 non-refundable program fee
Total = $99,844

I realize this does NOT include housing, food etc.

I am doing this calculation because I literally have the HMI application and am completing it right now! I appreciate your warnings about HMI. Considering your commentary which I am confident is on target, it may not be worth it. Still, I want to know the exact out of pocket cost so that I can make the most informed decision possible on whether it is worth it.

Please let me know if you disagree with my calculations Bidiboom. For reasons outlined so articulately by Devildoc, I am seriously considering the HMI program, but I cannot afford any "surprises" concerning costs after I get started.

I think other readers will benefit from an exact stipulation of the cost of the HMI/Poland medical program.

Lawmed hi,

The other day coincidentially I saw that I was wrong in 1st and 2nd year tuitions and corrected my calculation in some of my posts, but obviously I must have skipped this one(and now corrected ). Its not 10.950 per year, but for semestre. So the total of 1st/2nd years makes appr.$44.000, not $22.000. Your calculation is correct to me too, but another Lublin 4th year student (and promotes the school a lot, so I take his words about fees to be true) said in one of his posts that there were 3rd and 4th year $19.000/year tuition fees as well, which makes $38.000. If its valid for today too, you must take into account that as well. Generally speaking the schools dont waive those fees, but rather they rise every year slightly, but in Lublin this year they rised 6-year program fees 1.000Euro, not a slight rise! So I dont expect them to waive those 3rd and 4th year tuition fees. Its a good idea to clarify this point.

One more point, I started this thread first in Lublin's forum, later I thought it would be better to start it in Polish Schools Forum and started the same thread here too. But the one in Lublin Forum proceeded too with a hot debate about HMI and its affiliates. It may be useful to take a look at it for you:
http://www.valuemd.com/medical-unive...careful-2.html

Hope this helps.. and thank you for compliment I dont make research around much, but this one seriously drew my attention.

Be Careful Again!
Nowadays Hope Medical Institute started an advertisement with a chic phrase:
"Our affiliated universities have trained over 40,000 physicians in over 60 years."

1) This is not what Hope Medical Institute produced, it may be(?) the productivity of some Polish universities.
2) The point is that, its the productivity of the native programs of those universities. The English programs are very very very limited in total graduate number. 40,000 is a datum (is it accurate?) out of HMI and the English programs of Polish med schools. Its de facto the number of the native programs.
3) HMI is established in 1995, it has a 17 years of past. 60 years of education belongs to again the native programs of those Polish schools, not English programs. The most active affiliate of HMI is Lublin and its English program is established 11 years ago, not 60!
4) Again: The number of the graduates who could find a residency is 232, not 40,000! Read the whole thread and you will get it.

Just be careful. They are simply, brazenly sell something they dont produce.

"I totally agree with you that relatively competitive students who cannot -- for whatever reason -- gain admission to a US MD or DO school should NOT consider HMI/Lublin/Silesia as their first alternative. No way." ...what should be my alternative in your opinion???

so Lublin has lost their loan eligibility?

I'm from Chicago and I see that they are affiliated with Weiss Memorial Hospital. What is the chance of working in that hospital in the 3rd and 4th years?

"I totally agree with you that relatively competitive students who cannot -- for whatever reason -- gain admission to a US MD or DO school should NOT consider HMI/Lublin/Silesia as their first alternative. No way." ...what should be my alternative in your opinion???

Ireland/UK.
Big 4 Carib.
W-EU (Germany, etc., if you can speak the language.)
Jagiellonian.
...not necessarily in that order, depending on the person.

so Lublin has lost their loan eligibility?

According to my buddy, who is boots-on-the-ground in Lublin, as well as several posters on VMD, they have regained loan eligibility.

I'm from Chicago and I see that they are affiliated with Weiss Memorial Hospital. What is the chance of working in that hospital in the 3rd and 4th years?

That would be a question for the HMI people, but my guess would be "pretty damn high."

thank you for the reply devildoc..so would you recommend any other 4yr programs in Poland besides JAG?..is your friend in the Lublin's 4YR?..what about Poznan, Warszaw, Lodz, Katowice?

I would recommend the other options before Poland, especially Ireland/UK and Big-4 Carib... but within Poland, I would recommend Jag.

My friend told me directly that he would not recommend Lublin or any of the other HMI-affiliated schools, except as a last resort. I concur generally with that assessment -- they can probably get you there, but there are better options.

Warsaw seems good, but it does not have 50-state approval in the US. Same with Gdansk-Danzig, and they only have a 6-year program, as I recall.

Just my .02.