Hello, i am deciding on attending Posnan, Poland, "OR" DOTE, Hungary (6-year MD program) in September of 2004. I have heard a lot of negative comments about how Polish schools are scams. Are any of these comments true?? I thought Polish schools were a lot more academically and technologically advanced than the Hungarian schools. Is there any fact to this?? I am leaning towards DOTE because of the negative comments about the Polish schools. I thought i would have a better chance of securing a residency if i went to Poland. I guess that is not the case, RIGHT???? Please, i desperately need advice quick, before i make a decision i will regret in the future. Thank you.

Gawtti

Hi,

Check out this thread!

http://www.valuemd.com/viewtopic.php?t=6199

Bye ..... Gerry

In order to give you my opinion, I would need more information from you. What is your background and age? What level of education have you achieved? Where do you wish to practice when are you done? What type of residency interests you?

Post or pm.

You look like you are about to invest at least six years of your life and a ton of money, never mind the blood, sweat and tears....

Beg, borrow, or steal; but get on a plane and check both out. For little more than the cost of a plane and train ticket (if you play your cards right) you will get first hand information. I think that is definetly worth the $2,000. For questions to ask see the Eastern European section on www.aaimg.com

i would like to get into orthopaedics. but, i hear it is very competitive. i have a B.S. in chemistry from a university in the south pacific. my GPA was very low, 2.10, did no studying in college. only the day before the exams. i know i can do much much better.

Polish schools are legit. In fact, here's a list of schools provided by the US Dept of Education that are approved for the Stafford/PLUS loan program:

Poland
03332400 Agriculture University of Wroclaw Wroclaw POLAND Eligible
01079500 Akademia Medyczna Warsaw POLAND Eligible
03597300 Jagiellonian University Krakow POLAND Eligible
01222300 Jagiellonian University Collegium Medicum Krakow POLAND Eligible
03091700 Karol Marcinkowski University of Medical Sciences Poznan POLAND Eligible
03335300 Medical University of Silesia (The) Katowice POLAND Eligible
03333300 Medical University School of Lublin Lublin POLAND Eligible
01233700 Wroclaw University of Medicine Wroclaw POLAND Eligible

In addition, here's a list from the NY State Department of Education Office of the Professions where graduates of the following foreign medical schools have approved clerkships. It includes 2 Polish medical schools.

http://www.op.nysed.gov/medforms.htm

"Form 2CC is not needed for graduates of the following medical schools, which have been approved by the New York State Education Department to allow students to complete more than 12 weeks of clinical clerkships in New York State. The schools are:

St. George's University School of Medicine, St. George's, Grenada
Ross University School of Medicine, Roseau, Dominica
Fatima College of Medicine, Manila, Philippines
The Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Guadalajara, Mexico
International Health and Medicine Program, Ben Gurion University of the Negrev, Beer-Sheva, Israel
English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland
American University of the Caribbean, St. Martin, Netherland Antilles
Saba University School of Medicine, Saba, Netherland Antilles "

A word of caution, as mentioned before make sure you do your homework before attending any medical school.

__________________
Class of 2008, 4yr MD
Poznan University of Medical Sciences
Poznan, Poland

Student Website: www.poznanmedicine.org

University Website: www.ump.edu.pl

NY Admissions Office Website: www.mdprogram.com

"Dispel from your mind the thought that an understanding of the human body in every aspect of its structure can be given in words..."

- Leonardo da Vinci

what about any hungarian schools???????

There is no truth to this. Academically, Hungarian schools are extremely rigorous, however they do not teach toward the USMLE. (In reality, neither do the Polish schools, although they claim to. See my reply to Gerry on one of the Posnan threads.)

Please also see my and Magyarorszag69's posts listed under Debrecen and Pecs on this forum for more information. The claim that the Polish schools are more technologically advanced is non-sense. A ton of Polish hospitals are broke and waiting for a government bail-out. By contrast, many Hungarian hospitals just got permission to privatize. On a GDP per head basis, Hungary is significantly ahead of Poland, though Poland invests a higher percentage into healthcare on a percentage basis (and due to a population almost four times greater on an absoulte basis as well.)

There is a higher concentration of North American students attending Polish schools, mostly due to the fact that those schools very aggressively recruit. There are many students who have left Poland very unsatisfied with their education, as they felt that they had been mislead. This is probably why the reputation of Polish schools suffer. Also, see some of NeilC's posts on this forum.

Hungarian medical schools are all legit and FFEL approved.
For more information on Debrecen, I would pm Magyarorszag69.
I would also like to point out that currently only Semmelweis (Budapest) and Szeged are approved for California. Debrecen, like Posnan is in the process of applying.

I would have recommended the established Carib. schools for you, as you have a B.S. degree, but your GPA will very probably exclude you.

I would not recommend the four year programs in the Eastern European region as I do not believe that they have enough history behind them. I think that you need to realize that a six year program will be comprehensive, but you may need to repeat material you have already seen (unless you can get some your classes accepted). Also, studying the day before the exam will simply not cut it, especially if you wish to apply for a residency in the U.S., as you will have to study for the USMLE more or less independently.

With regard to Orthopedics, your best shot is probably to work hard at whatever school you choose to attend and shoot for the very high end of the USMLE spectrum and once done apply to any programs (prelim, cat.) that will get you close to Ortho.

Finally, I think you need to visit those places BEFORE you commit. The $2k you will spend in travelling there will allow you to make an informed decision. The financial cost of a six year education is at least $100k, depending on your lifestyle and could run significantly higher. A lot of med students make a decision to go someplace "sight-unseen". In my opinion, it is like buying a luxury automobile from a slick sales brochure without actually seeing it, never mind test driving it.

Gawtti,

I think that it is safe to say that all Polish medical universities are legit entities. I mean its not like they are really agricultural schools pretending to medical universities so that when you pay tuition you only learn how to grow cabbage and potatoes instead of learning what ails and cures the human body.

The questions you should be asking are: Which Polish schools deliver on what they promise? Which Polish schools use outside recruiting agencies, thus inflating the price of tuition? Which Polish schools meet my goals/needs?

Like anything in this world, there is good and there is bad. If you are really serious about studying medicine in Poland, I would highly consider Poznañ or Kraków. They are proven univeristies and are not affiliated with outside recruiting agencies. It seems that most people that have something bad to say about Polish medical schools, either went to a school that was affiliated with HMI ( a recruiting agency that promises a lot more than they can produce) or have heard something secondhandedly and just repeat it.

I can tell you this much, I would not have spent almost $100,000 and over 4 years of my life at an institution that was trying to scam me. Furthermore, I wouldn't be posting anything even remotely positive about the university if this were so. I am happy with my decision to study at the UMS in Poznań. I can't say that every day was full of sunshine and flowers there, but all in all its a solid program. If you are willing to work hard enough, you will do fine.

I highly doubt that the statement about Polish schools being a lot more technically and academically advanced is very accurate. I'm sure that some are better than others on both sides. Although a good objective survey of Eastern European schools would be interesting to see.

Whatever your choice is, make sure you invest a lot of time and possibly some money into the decision making process. Best of luck to you and I hope that I was able to provide a bit of insight.

Regards,

ctkMD

Ortho is very, very competitive. But, if you work hard and really bust your a** , you can do it. A classmate of mine matched into an Ortho Residency at the Cleveland Clinic, so anything is possible.

To do the same you will need to score very high on the USMLE Step 1 & 2. You should also get involved with Ortho in your first year. The surgeons at the main Ortho clinic in Poznañ are very approachable and it would be a good idea to hook up with them early on. I would even suggest doing some research in the field as well as trying to publish some papers or case reports.

Best of luck!

ctkMD