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  1. #1
    fammed2002 is offline Member 510 points
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    PAs are trying to replace primary doctors

    For those who think that PAs are not trying to replace primary doctors readthe following. it is an excerpt from a internet response.the assertion that the care from a PA is better is not true.1) they see less complicated cases2) they have an MD next to them to review the complicated cases.3) I have worked with PAs/NPs and they should not be working independently.To the Editor,To fully address the physician shortage, we must redesign our approach to care.[1] A model that we should evaluate is utilizing midlevel providers for primary care. Many studies have shown care quality as good or better than similar primary care doctors. Let us use the more extensive knowledge and training of physicians for specialty care. Most are going there anyway because lifestyle and financial pressures have squeezed them out of primary care. There are over 25,000 midlevels graduating each year, and can rapidly meet the needs of our aging population.Patrick Watterson PA-CInternal Medicine/Sports Medicine/Occupational MedicineVice President of Finance and Information SystemsBethany Medicalpatrickw@bethanymedicalcenter.com Untitled Document ReferenceRockey PH. Fixing the US physician shortage requires many more slots for resident physicians in training. MedGenMed. 2006;8:52. Available at: Log In Problems Accessed May 22, 2006.

  2. #11
    maximillian genossa's Avatar
    maximillian genossa is offline Ultimate Member
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    "My nurse is currently in NP school, and she states they are being taught that NP's should consider themselves equal with physicians."

    Consider themselves equal to physicians? Nice pep rally talk, but unreal and wishful thinking.
    "Sacrifice turns to revenge and believe me
    You'll see the face who'll say:I love you... I'll kill you...But I'll love you forever
    ..."If I die tomorrow, what will you tell me today?." Hidden Content Previously known as Genossa Maximillian

  3. #12
    Looking Glass is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genossa maximillian View Post
    "My nurse is currently in NP school, and she states they are being taught that NP's should consider themselves equal with physicians."

    Consider themselves equal to physicians? Nice pep rally talk, but unreal and wishful thinking.
    That's been her mantra. She can't imagine where nurses ever got the idea that they could be equal to physicians.

  4. #13
    stephew is offline Moderator Guru 512 points
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    So long as physicians thing about their relationship with nurses and PAs and other staff in terms of a hierarchy they are missing the boat. Those that do are reflecting their own needs and insecurities. Worry about your patients, not where you are on the food chain and you'll be fine.
    Steph
    If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

  5. #14
    stanfordpa2005 is offline Junior Member 510 points
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    I was an Emergency Room PA for about 3 years and I saw a lot of complex cases. Having said, I never considered myself at the same caliber as my attending or any physician. I knew my limits and respected them. I am currently finishing my first year of medical school and I am very fortunate of my experience as a PA. I loved being a PA, but I wanted to go into a specialty that is impossible for PA's to enter and thus my decision to go back to medical school. All in all, I don't regret any of my experiences. I am a big believer in PA education and training and there are good PA's and there are bad PA's.

  6. #15
    Patrick PA is offline Newbie 510 points
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    Hi Im the PA that wrote that.

    My point had nothing to do about "replacing" Doc's. The simple fact is the doctors have all but abandoned primary care for high paying specialties and I cant blame them. There is a need to provide quality primary care in this country and if MD's are not available PA's and NP's may be the solution to this vacuum of providers. As most of you know less than 5% of MD students are going into primary care and the impact of this is becoming more and more evident.

    We need to rethink our system. I suggested we take the more extensive and more in depth training of MD's and utilize that for specialist care. Like it or not, several studies have shown that PA's provide the same or better quality of care for primary care patients. (JAMA) I personally have many primary care consultations sent to me by MD's in my community and they have no feeling of being threatened by my presence. The other benefit of PA training is we are trained to know when to refer patients on to specialist care. I personally DONT think a PA will ever equal an MD care quality in specialist care. The level of training for an MD at that level makes that unrealistic to expect for a PA to achieve.

    In summary mid-levels are not trying to "replace" doctors but to serve as an option for primary care where the lack of MD's has created a large void of providers for the front lines of medicine. We are all in this together and I think most people are in medicine to help others. At the end of the day we all have to pitch in whereever we can to help improve our patients lives.

    Patrick Watterson PA-C

  7. #16
    maximillian genossa's Avatar
    maximillian genossa is offline Ultimate Member
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    Besides the obvious...PA's work under the supervision of a Licensed physician, (let it be under his license) no replacement in that part of the practice!



    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick PA View Post
    My point had nothing to do about "replacing" Doc's. The simple fact is the doctors have all but abandoned primary care for high paying specialties and I cant blame them. There is a need to provide quality primary care in this country and if MD's are not available PA's and NP's may be the solution to this vacuum of providers. As most of you know less than 5% of MD students are going into primary care and the impact of this is becoming more and more evident.

    We need to rethink our system. I suggested we take the more extensive and more in depth training of MD's and utilize that for specialist care. Like it or not, several studies have shown that PA's provide the same or better quality of care for primary care patients. (JAMA) I personally have many primary care consultations sent to me by MD's in my community and they have no feeling of being threatened by my presence. The other benefit of PA training is we are trained to know when to refer patients on to specialist care. I personally DONT think a PA will ever equal an MD care quality in specialist care. The level of training for an MD at that level makes that unrealistic to expect for a PA to achieve.

    In summary mid-levels are not trying to "replace" doctors but to serve as an option for primary care where the lack of MD's has created a large void of providers for the front lines of medicine. We are all in this together and I think most people are in medicine to help others. At the end of the day we all have to pitch in whereever we can to help improve our patients lives.

    Patrick Watterson PA-C
    "Sacrifice turns to revenge and believe me
    You'll see the face who'll say:I love you... I'll kill you...But I'll love you forever
    ..."If I die tomorrow, what will you tell me today?." Hidden Content Previously known as Genossa Maximillian

  8. #17
    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    No chance, how can you compare, training, malpractice, liability,& level of education:

    MD = 8 years plus & at least 3 years Residency
    PA = 2-4 Years, and NO residency

    PAs are doing an amazing job, but as PAs, supervised under MDs/DOs....

    Respectfully,


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick PA View Post
    My point had nothing to do about "replacing" Doc's. The simple fact is the doctors have all but abandoned primary care for high paying specialties and I cant blame them. There is a need to provide quality primary care in this country and if MD's are not available PA's and NP's may be the solution to this vacuum of providers. As most of you know less than 5% of MD students are going into primary care and the impact of this is becoming more and more evident.

    We need to rethink our system. I suggested we take the more extensive and more in depth training of MD's and utilize that for specialist care. Like it or not, several studies have shown that PA's provide the same or better quality of care for primary care patients. (JAMA) I personally have many primary care consultations sent to me by MD's in my community and they have no feeling of being threatened by my presence. The other benefit of PA training is we are trained to know when to refer patients on to specialist care. I personally DONT think a PA will ever equal an MD care quality in specialist care. The level of training for an MD at that level makes that unrealistic to expect for a PA to achieve.

    In summary mid-levels are not trying to "replace" doctors but to serve as an option for primary care where the lack of MD's has created a large void of providers for the front lines of medicine. We are all in this together and I think most people are in medicine to help others. At the end of the day we all have to pitch in whereever we can to help improve our patients lives.

    Patrick Watterson PA-C

  9. #18
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    t-rex is offline Member 521 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by UHSADOC View Post
    No chance, how can you compare, training, malpractice, liability,& level of education:

    MD = 8 years plus & at least 3 years Residency
    PA = 2-4 Years, and NO residency

    PAs are doing an amazing job, but as PAs, supervised under MDs/DOs....

    Respectfully,
    Actually, PA training is 4-6 years (Bachelor or masters), and some actually do a 1-2 years residency. I know a few PA's who are much more competent than many MD's (especially those who went to Med school in 3rd world countries)!

  10. #19
    miggy211 is offline Member 529 points
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    besides the geater amt of years an MD/DO goes to school for....the material and knowledge in those years of school is far far FAR - more intense and way greater vastness than any PA cld possibly dream of....its simply silly to compare an PA to an MD.

  11. #20
    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    PA/NP good options after MD/DO

    Agreed, NP/PA schools typical moto is "We try to condense 4 years of medical school into 2 years."

    Focus on the word TRY.....You just can't have all the amount of material we get in MD training into half the amount of time....It is Illogical & impractical...

    But, I have to admit we need more PAs and NPs, and they are doing an excellent job at what they do !

    I encourage students to look into these fields.

    Cheers,


    Quote Originally Posted by miggy211 View Post
    besides the geater amt of years an MD/DO goes to school for....the material and knowledge in those years of school is far far FAR - more intense and way greater vastness than any PA cld possibly dream of....its simply silly to compare an PA to an MD.

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