What I don't understand is, why are you considering a Canadian MD. I've heard it is touger to get into med school in Canada than the US. If you have the stats to get in, why would you even consider a DO?

OK but I think to do well in a DO program you have to believe in the philosophy and I do not with OMM, I really do not think Physical manipulation cures anything, I do not care about the documentation, I would bet my day's pay it was researched by pro OMM people. and just because people "Feel Better" well you can give a sugar pill and that will happen any 9th grader knows that.....................


Oh and it seems it's ok for you to have an opinion DO is the way to go but for some of us that do not want to go DO then we are closed minded, way to go................................................

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As a student on Value MD not attending one of the Covenanted schools there is no pleasure in posting anymore.

Just an FYI...I work with DO co-residents and tons of DO students rotate with us. I have met a grand total of 1 that even plans to use OMM in practice. So, no, it is absolutely NOT important for you to subscribe to this philosophy to do well.

I do not think anybody who chooses to NOT go DO is close minded. However, if you think there is some actual tangible benefit to the offshore schools when compared to DO, I think there is a defect in logic. And, when people go so far as to imply that they are likely to do as well as a DO graduate (or be as competitive for any specialty) from an offshore school that is outside of the big 4...well, that is frankly stupid.

who do you think conducts clinical trials? drug companies and some of their data is questionable. OMM works for musculoskeletal problems nothing more but most insurancew companies will not reimburse for it because chiros get much less for essentially the same thing so not may DOs actually practice OMM besides of you wanted to pop backs you'd have gone to chiro school

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OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

Yeah I know about the backs but there are other claims about cures for other ailments and I just do not buy into it. Also there has been some stories on Broken necks, no I'm not in the least way trying to bash just point out some things.

I do not know why some other posters have to follow me everywhere and post how inferior I am because they do not like my school................I happen to know they did not go to US school as well.

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As a student on Value MD not attending one of the Covenanted schools there is no pleasure in posting anymore.

Look I do not care this is opinion, there are hundreds of DO's and they do take OMM seriously or they would not teach it and test on it. That is factual a lot more then I now these few People, also it matters in a DO residency. It does not matter in an MD residency. I like facts not anecdotal.

As far as people doing well from a Caribbean school, there is a SGU grad who posts here (Stephew) who has done very well a lot better than a lot of DO grads, there is another I know of right away, they are the head of the Emory Pain clinic, seems to be very good to me better then some DO, there are more success stories these are my favorites for now.......... not that something is better but it may be just as good....................it all depends on the people I think.

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As a student on Value MD not attending one of the Covenanted schools there is no pleasure in posting anymore.

HAHAHHaa!

You post "I like facts, not anecdotals"....but, you are the same guy who just a few posts back said that you DO NOT like the scientific data that supports some aspecst of OMM (facts, data), and then you use your anecdotal evidence (stephew and a single Emory pain example) to support your position!

The fact is the VAST majority of DO (in DO residency or allopathic) do not practice OMM. The fact is, every year, in every competitive specialty, more DOs match than IMGs (when you include DO residency positions). The fact is OMM is established via medical literature to have some positive effect on some musculoskeletal diagnoses.

What you don't like is your feeling (anecdotal) that a DO has a greater stigma than an IMG. What you don't like is your feeling (anecdotal) that DO is like chiro. While I am a great fan of you having your opinion, I am not a great fan of you trying to use your poor logic (and less than clear understanding of words like anecdotal and fact) to talk smack about a profession that you very obviously have limited understanding of.

I don't mind you basing your opinion on ignorance, I think that is fine. But, if you try to use that ignorance to convince somebody of your position, well I am going to have to expose it.

as fascinating as your intellectual debate is, please keep in mind the terms of use.

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Steph
If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.

OMM is NOT a philosophy. It's a tool that is based on a so-called unique philosophy that claims to "treat the patient as a whole rather than a disease." That's like saying prescribing medications is the allopathic philosophy. Clearly it isn't a philosophy. It's a small component of medicine based on the allopathic and osteopathic philosophy. Are you saying you don't agree that a patient should be treated rather than a disease? Are you all for prescribing a drug and leaving the room - patient visit over? Both allopathic and osteopathic pathways have the same philosophy nowadays. The big uproar is created because allopathic physicians are just as patient orientated as osteopathic physicians, and that is why the allopathic world takes exception when DOs say "well we treat patients with a more hands-on approach." It's all **. There are allopathic and osteopathic physicians with great bedside manners, and there are alloathic and osteopathic physicians with poor bedside manners who will be in and out of a patient visit in 90 seconds with a prescription.


[/quote]
I really do not think Physical manipulation cures anything, [/quote]

More misinformation on your part. Nobody claims OMM "cures" anything, and if anyone does say that then they're full of it and giving DOs a bad name. The entire explanation behind OMM is that it allows the body to heal itself. OMM in itself does not cure anything. Let's say you suffer whiplash in a car accident and your SCM spasms and tightens up. Upon palpation you note tenderness, edema, and tightness. After radioimaging to make sure there is no cervical damage, you can either take muscle relaxants and wait for the SCM to loosen up on its own, or use OMM. OMM doesn't cure cancer, doesn't do anything for metabolic diseases and doesn't help you get over the flu any faster than taking a short jog once a day.


[/quote]I do not care about the documentation, I would bet my day's pay it was researched by pro OMM people. and just because people "Feel Better" well you can give a sugar pill and that will happen any 9th grader knows that..................... [/quote]

Of course you don't care about documentation that proves your misinformed theories wrong. Obviously OMM is going to be researched by "OMM people" as you put it. People don't waste time and money strictly to try to prove others wrong in the real world. Don't drug companies conduct their own research as well? I'd call that prodrug (no pun intended).


[/quote]Oh and it seems it's ok for you to have an opinion DO is the way to go but for some of us that do not want to go DO then we are closed minded, way to go................................................[/quote]

You're entitled to your opinion. But you're spreading wrong information on a field you've proven to know very little about.

Wrong again. Boy, you're just loaded with misinformation, eh? You think there are hundreds of DOs? There are over 40,000 DOs practicing medicine throughout the US right now. According to a study presented by a DO/PhD/MPH at a certain osteopathic school, 56% of osteopathic students reported practicing OMM regularly during their first two years (I'm assuming this means on family/friends/outside of school since we all had to use it during school), and after those first two years, only 7% of students continued to use it in rotations in the hospitals. I'd be more than happy to provide you with links to these studies if you'd like. The number that is floating around is that something like 5-10% of all DOs use OMM in their practice today, but don't quote me on that because I can't remember where I read it but I'm sure if you do a search you'll see that very few DOs in practice actually use OMM, especially those of the younger generation. I can guarantee you that 99.9% of DO surgeons, dermatologists, pathologists, OB/GYN, anastesiologists, rads, psychiatrists, and ophthamologists don't use OMM.


[/quote] As far as people doing well from a Caribbean school, there is a SGU grad who posts here (Stephew) who has done very well a lot better than a lot of DO grads, there is another I know of right away, they are the head of the Emory Pain clinic, seems to be very good to me better then some DO, there are more success stories these are my favorites for now.......... not that something is better but it may be just as good....................it all depends on the people I think.[/quote]

Stephew has done "very well a lot better" than a lot of foreign grads too. What's your point? I can't believe you threw 2 examples of good matches out there and are using that as your "factual" conclusion that it's "better than some DO." (your exact words above) I don't have immediate access to other Osteopathic school match lists right now, but in the last few years my school had matches at Cleveland Clinic, Brighams, and Yale-New Haven Hospital just to name a few. That means nothing and has nothing to do with the school itself. They were smart people. Yes - these are all MD residencies, and yes, this is in addition to all the osteopathic derm, ortho, blah blah blah residencies. Somehow I have a feeling you didn't bother checking into all this information, including DO match lists, because you already have your "factually" based opinions in your head. As I've said in a previous post, a few MD residencies will look down on foreign MDs, and a few MD residencies will look down on DOs. The only reason why a DO would have any advantage is because of their selection of osteopathic residencies.

You're entitled to believe whatever you want, but you've been greatly misinformed when it comes to your knowledge on DOs.