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Thread: New law gives medical licenses to naturopathic doctors

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    New law gives medical licenses to naturopathic doctors

    http://www.auburnjournal.com/article...e/01health.txt

    New law gives medical licenses to naturopathic doctors
    Three local docs will be able to diagnose, treat illnesses

    By: xxxxxxxxx, Journal Staff Writer
    Thursday, December 23, 2004 5:09 AM PST


    Naturopathic doctors xxxxx, back, and his wife, xxxxxx, perform a routine checkup on a patient at their Auburn office. They are among the first in California to be licensed naturopathic doctors. Photo by xxxx/Auburn Journal
    Up until recently, naturopathic medicine practitioners in California could only be consultants in a patient's medical care. They weren't able to do lab tests, draw blood or even diagnose illnesses.

    But now thanks to a new California law, some of the first licensed naturopathic doctors will be able to be primary care physicians for thousands who seek out their care. And there are three of them in Auburn alone.

    "Because there was no licensing regulation in our profession, naturopathic doctors had to operate as a nutritionist would. So this basically put us on same level as an MD," said xxxxxxof Four Rivers Naturopathic Clinic in Auburn.

    xxxx and her husband xxxxxx started the clinic in November and are anxiously awaiting their licenses along with xxxxx, an Auburn native who has a home practice in town.

    "I'm really excited about it. What I've found is because I can't advertise I'm a doctor a lot of people don't realize what I do," xxxxx said. "Now people can be aware of alternatives, because Western medicine doesn't have all the answers. We have some, and hopefully there will be more choice for people."



    Now NDs can prescribe drugs through a supervising MD, administer intravenous fluids, draw blood, do lab tests, exams and diagnose illness.

    The biggest benefit xxxxx sees is being able to legally diagnose and treat illness, where before she could only suggest and hint at things that have helped other people.

    "The wording was different. Now I can be a little bit more direct - yes I treat this and this and not 'We get great success from doing this.' It's just easier," she said.

    The bill set to be signed into law earlier this year created the Bureau of Naturopathic Medicine under the Department of Consumer Affairs. The process of setting up this new infrastructure took time, and now finally, doctors are receiving their licenses in California.

    California is the 13th state to license naturopathic doctors.



    "It's been kind of a buyer beware. (California) had an environment in which it's hard for consumers to understand what they're getting and the difference between a well-trained naturopathic doctor and just anyone," said xxxxxx, president of the California Naturopathic Doctor's Association.

    Levy said many correspondence schools offer degrees in naturopathy that don't guarantee any medical training.In the Know: Fast naturopathic facts

    There are five approved schools of naturopathic medicine in North America.There are 150 members of the California Naturopathic Doctors Association.Four naturopathic doctors in the area were among the first to apply for their license, three in Auburn and one in Sacramento.
    Naturopathic doctors licensed by California must have a degree from an approved school and have passed the Naturopathic Physicians Licensing Examination to call themselves naturopathic doctors.

    While unlicensed naturopathic practitioners still have a lot to offer, Hook said, they might not have same medical background as NDs.

    Though there are still some limitations, NDs cannot deliver children or do minor surgery, these are advances on the horizon for the newly licensed naturopathic doctors. But now patients can rest assured they are receiving quality care, xxxxxxx said.

    "If you have a broken bone, we can't treat you, and if you have appendicitis, we'll know. That's the benefit for the citizens of California know they know that their doctor have training to recognize serious illness," she said.


    xxxxxxxxare both doctors originally from California who studied in Arizona but missed the nature, rolling hills and trees that of California.

    "I'm not sure we would have come here if that law wasn't passed and that's going to be true for lots of students and people who have been practicing in other states," xxxxxsaid. "This will change the face of health care in California, this is just the beginning."

    Naturopathy is a holistic medical approach that treats the entire person with the least invasive and toxic means.

    "We try to understand what is going on with the person on a physical level, an emotional level and a spiritual level. We use treatments as gentle and conservative as possible while still getting the job done," xxxxxx said.

    Patients are pleased to hear they can now see their naturopathic doctors for many of their needs.

    "I'm totally thrilled I won't go to a medical doctor unless it's absolutely necessary now that can see her for everything," said xxxxxxxxx, 38, Meadow Vista, who started seeing D'Amico this summer.

    "I was struggling with the limitations of Western medicine, and looking for any alternative that can help," she said. "And now they can do lab tests and give shots on top of what they're already capable of doing. It's so wonderful."

    The Journal's xxxxxxxx can be reached at xxxxxxxxxx
    Last edited by azskeptic; 12-22-2005 at 05:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azskeptic
    In arizona they have got almost the identical scope of practice as FP's. They are planning to begin a residency program that will allow people to be Opth., IM, Psych,etc.

    I do not believe the training is equivalent but our state has allowed them quite a lot of leeway already.
    That's downright scary.

    Are they allowed to called themselves "doctors" or "physicians"?

    Will they be able to call themselves "psychiatrists" or "specialists in internal medicine"?

    For California, the answer at the moment seems to be "no".

    Quote Originally Posted by California Business and Professions Code
    3660. Except as provided in subdivision (h) of Section 3644, a
    person shall have a valid, unrevoked, or unsuspended license issued
    under this chapter to do any of the following:
    (a) To claim to be a naturopathic doctor, licensed naturopathic
    doctor, doctor of naturopathic medicine, doctor of naturopathy, or
    naturopathic medical doctor.
    (b) To use the professional abbreviation "N.D." or other titles,
    words, letters, or symbols with the intent to represent that he or
    she practices, is authorized to practice, or is able to practice
    naturopathic medicine as a naturopathic doctor.

    3661. A naturopathic doctor who uses the term or designation "Dr."
    shall further identify himself or herself as "Naturopathic Doctor,"
    "Licensed Naturopathic Doctor," "Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine," or
    "Doctor of Naturopathy" and shall not use any term or designation
    that would tend to indicate the practice of medicine, other than
    naturopathic medicine, unless otherwise licensed as a physician and
    surgeon, osteopathic doctor, or doctor of chiropractic.

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    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by teratos
    I think they should be able to do labs, so they can look for the renal and hepatotoxicity of their unresearched treatments. It's interesting, really. Look at the recent hubbub in the pres about Naprosyn. A drug we have used for 20 years. Countless studies have been done on it. Now we find out that it increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Now imagine what you'll find if you follow all these herbal treatments.

    Herbal remedies most often contain drugs in the same classes as drugs that allopaths use for various conditions. Saw Palmetto is an alpha-blocker, just like Flomax. St. John's Wort is a weak MAO inhibitor (the most dangerous class of antidepressants, and probably one of the most dangerous classes of medication...period), etc. Why do people take this crap. It's like me giving them a pill and saying "it hasn't been studied, I don't know how much of the active ingredient is in each one, and we have no outcomes data" That is absolutely dumb.

    We'll see what happens when it comes to malpractice. I bet nobody will cover them because of potential hidden dangers in the treatments. G
    Good points, all.

    How many of your patients are taking St. John's wort either known or unbeknownest to you?

    I'm guessing that documenting that the patient is taking herbal 'remedies' will become even more important in the future, if only to CYA.

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    Re: ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklos
    Quote Originally Posted by azskeptic
    In arizona they have got almost the identical scope of practice as FP's. They are planning to begin a residency program that will allow people to be Opth., IM, Psych,etc.

    I do not believe the training is equivalent but our state has allowed them quite a lot of leeway already.
    That's downright scary.

    Are they allowed to called themselves "doctors" or "physicians"?

    Will they be able to call themselves "psychiatrists" or "specialists in internal medicine"?

    For California, the answer at the moment seems to be "no".

    6.What titles are protected by the law and reserved for licensed naturopathic doctors?
    Answer: naturopathic doctor, licensed naturopathic doctor, doctor of naturopathic medicine, doctor
    of naturopathy, and naturopathic medical doctor. (Sec 3660)
    yes they can...here is one of our local 'drs'

    http://www.midland.edu/cgi-bin/calen...p;event_id=784
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    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by azskeptic
    yes they can...here is one of our local 'drs'

    http://www.midland.edu/cgi-bin/calen...p;event_id=784
    What is it? The desert heat getting to your legislators?

    Marvelous.

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    Re: ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklos
    Quote Originally Posted by azskeptic
    yes they can...here is one of our local 'drs'

    http://www.midland.edu/cgi-bin/calen...p;event_id=784
    What is it? The desert heat getting to your legislators?

    Marvelous.
    In the 50's the joke was that I had some land in Arizona to sell you but now that land is $1,000,000/acre in choice spots. So now we've switched to alt medicine as our newest joke..they have their own 'school' here:

    http://www.scnm.edu/

    their own medical board

    http://www.npbomex.az.gov/

    even their own formulary and wide scope of practice

    http://www.auditorgen.state.az.us/Re...-9execsumm.htm

    But as for me and my family, I'll wait and see where it is going. I once went to a naturopath in the early 90's who later was charged with taking one's urine, 'cleaning it' and injecting it back into the patient for control of allergies.
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    holy crap...... that guy is a cardiologist as a ND??????!!!!!!!???????????

    what was his residency training like???????????
    Board Certified
    Internal Medicine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott1981
    holy crap...... that guy is a cardiologist as a ND??????!!!!!!!???????????

    what was his residency training like???????????
    He claims to have done a 'residency' but when I asked the hospital and supervising doctor they denied it. Who knows but in my state he can claim anything. He also claims to be in a fellowship: American Association of Cardiovascular and Pulmonary Rehabilitation. However when you read what being a fellow is:

    Fellow
    Shall be qualified as a Member in good-standing for a minimum of three consecutive years; attended a minimum of two Annual Meetings; demonstrated high standards of professional development and a commitment to the goals and long-range activities of the Association; submitted evidence of outstanding performance in some aspect of cardiovascular or pulmonary rehabilitation over a period of at least five years relative to a) clinical practice, b) research and/or c) professional education in cardiovascular and pulmonary rehabilitation; received recommendations in writing by two Fellows of the Association; and received the approval of the Credentials Committee and the Board of Directors. Fellows have AACVPR voting privileges.

    Membership in AACVPR is effective July 1 through June 30. Membership is not pro-rated; however, members joining after March 1 will be deferred until July 1. Membership dues are non-refundable nor deductible as a charitable contribution. Membership dues may be deductible as an ordinary and necessary business expense. Consult your tax advisor for information.



    You quickly realize it doesn't mean much either. That is why I believe people have to stand up and demand accountability of our care providers because the average person doesn't know the difference between a real fellowship and something like that.

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    Miklos is offline Elite Member 511 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by azskeptic
    You quickly realize it doesn't mean much either. That is why I believe people have to stand up and demand accountability of our care providers because the average person doesn't know the difference between a real fellowship and something like that.

    azskeptic
    From az's link:
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ auditor general
    The Legislature may wish to consider reviewing the Board’s statutes to more clearly define what services naturopaths can perform. Seemingly minor statutory changes have broadened the naturopathic scope of practice to include practices once limited to allopathic (M.D.) and osteopathic (D.O) physicians. Arizona's board, which has statutory authority to adopt rules for recognizing naturopathic specialties, now proposes recognizing 16 specialties including family medicine and minor surgery, internal medicine, neurology and psychiatry, and ophthalmology. It is not clear if the Legislature intended such an extension of naturopaths’ activities. No other state that regulates naturopaths recognizes such a broad range of specialties.

    The Legislature may also wish to consider reviewing the Board’s statutes to determine if increased review should be provided over what prescriptions naturopaths can write. The Board’s statutes require it to develop a list of "natural substances" that naturopaths can prescribe, but the statutes do not define what "natural substances" are. The Board has developed an extensive list, or formulary, that includes not only vitamins and minerals, but also vaccines, antibiotics, oral contraceptives, anabolic steroids, and controlled substances such as morphine and cocaine. The federal Drug Enforcement Administration has recently approved Arizona naturopaths to prescribe controlled substances from the formulary because this appears to be in accordance with state law. Although some other states allow naturopaths to prescribe and dispense drugs, none has a list as extensive as what the Board has developed. Most of these states also have separate oversight bodies to develop or review the list, while Arizona does not. These other states have also established their formularies in rule before allowing naturopaths to begin prescribing drugs; Arizona has not.
    Simply nuts.

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    microbiologist is offline Member 512 points
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrod
    you can't study all side effects in 5 years it is more of a risk assesment. if you want to test meds for 30 years to see thier long term safety profile then be prepared to pay the price.

    i saw an artcle once that related a significvant number of those drug deaths and other medical deaths blamed entirely on doctors and it talked about many patients who had been under a ND care or some other holistic garbage before seeking medical help...by the time they got there damamge had already been dopne by "natural herbs" and some didn't report what herbs they were taking because they were "all natural medicines and completely safe"and had reactions with prescriptions given so i think those numbers are also inflated. on top of that add in the many patients that wait until the very end to seek help, and the thousands who are told to cross the border illegaly becuase medical care is not refused in the US and the condition they arrive in. i saw my share of mexican turfs in horrible shape expecting miracles.....

    I think you should get your facts straight about homeopathic medicines.There is no way that it could have side effects or can damage a patient simply because it has no chemicals like a drug.Drugs have caused negative and harmful reactions in the body and is only used to suppress a symptom.Homeopathics are used to eliminate the root of the problem.Infact the FDA cannot regulate it because they would have to do the same to all products in the groceries.For years it has been clinically tested and you can even see how millions of people all around the world have gotten positive results from natural products.We all know that its a scam coming from the government concerning the drug companies.They prefer people to take drugs yet they put false claims on the products stating that they are facts but not really facts opinions and theories because they constantly change.The profits go to them,yet drugs contribute to further illnesses and cause cells to degenerate and causes cancer.We are responsible for our own disease simply by eating wrong all our lives.If a patient is seriously ill and the MD recommends a drug to suppress the symptom,the patient is still experiencing toxicity and has lots of acidic residue in the body.The patient will get sick again.The homeopathic medicine which is active ingredients from various minerals can cleanse and detoxify the body and help initiate the healing process.In the himalayas where there are no sort of drugs,the people eat vegetables and eat the goji berry.Dr.Earl Mindell who is also a pharmacist travelled there and investigate and spoke to the population.They told him that they lived over 120 years old and still look young because of the antioxidants in the goji berry.So he later formulated the goji juice and people have had lots of improvements all throughout their body. www.pubmed.org search lycium barbarum.
    Drugs when interacted with a food supplement it will have a negative reaction in your body that is why you cannot use both together.You have to understand simply that a herb has plant molecules that are similar to ours and when interacted with our molecules it can have positive effects on the body especially if you specify the plant to your problem.The hypoglycemic and hypolipidemic effects of Lycium barbarum fruit water decoction, crude polysaccharide extracts (crude LBP), and purified polysaccharide fractions (LBP-X) in alloxan-induced diabetic or hyperlipidemic rabbits were investigated through designed sequential trials and by measuring blood glucose and serum lipid parameters. Total antioxidant capacity was also assessed using trolox equivalent antioxidant capacity (TEAC) and oxygen radical absorbance capacity (ORAC) assay. It was found that the three Lycium barbarum fruit extracts/fractions could significantly reduce blood glucose levels and serum total cholesterol (TC) and triglyceride (TG) concentrations and at same time markedly increase high density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-c) levels after 10 days treatment in tested rabbits, indicating that there were substantial hypoglycemic and hypolipidemic effects. Hypoglycemic effect of LBP-X was more significant than those of water decoction and crude LBP, but its hypolipidemic effect seemed to be weaker. Total antioxidant capacity assay showed that all three Lycium barbarum extracts/fractions possessed antioxidant activity. However, water and methanolc fruit extracts and crude polysaccharide extracts exhibited stronger antioxidant activity than purified polysaccharide fractions because crude extracts were identified to be rich in antioxidants (e.g., carotenoids, riboflavin, ascorbic acid, thiamine, nicotinic acid). Lycium barbarum polysaccharides (glycocojugates), containing several monosaccharides and 17 amino acids, were major bioactive constituents of hypoglycemic effect. Both polysaccharides and vitamin antioxidants from Lycium barbarum fruits (Goji) were possible active principles of hypolipidemic effect.Naturopathic products with active ingredients have proven effective with proof and evidence from specific laboratory information.For someone to talk about homeopathics being garbage should go to court against an ND and prove that it does not work with substantial evidence and if he/she doesn not comply,the consequences are tremendous especially people who are biased towards the success of alternative practitioners.I have family members and friends that are MD's and ND's and the worst thing is to put them together in a discussion because that is like chalk and cheese. Years before these drug companies came into practice,homeopathics have been used worldwide safely and has a greater success rate compared to drugs which has the lowest success rate in medical history.I think if you do not get the results you want from a Medical doctor you should go to a Naturopathic doctor,they have great success rates.America has the most obese people in the world,people die more from heart attacks,stroke,high cholesterol they suffer from and since americans just want a "Quick Fix"
    they will take any drug that will help get rid of a problem fast without having a care about the harmful effects it will cause later on.It boils down to the peoples choice in the end.People are reading lots of books and any sort of information and success stories about natural supplements and are changing dramatically.I think this business will prosper into a huge success.I think congress should do something about this drug scam.

    Regards
    Last edited by microbiologist; 12-21-2005 at 01:39 PM.

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    microbiologist is offline Member 512 points
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    I investigated that MD's cannot advertise like ND's and they have a standard fee compared to ND's that can charge whatever they want especially if they do live blood analysis/nutritional microscopy where you can see the sample of blood yourself as evidence on the television and the microscopist analysis it pointing out imbalances,deficiences,conditions that can contribute to a potential disease and does recommendations on how to improve yourself.My analysis has a dried blood sample which cannot provide more vast information like a live cell which can have changes in effect which are not standard, if they have a clinic with a wide range of products so when they recommend people can buy right in the same place.
    I have dealt with drugs for years and compared to nutritional supplements that initiate the healing process,the drugs had only an acidic residue and the supplements were proven alkaline to the body.I have had great results in natural products,I feel better,look better,feel younger I myself was a sceptic but you have to experience it yourself.These products have been clinically tested and people have had results esp.when taking supplements from large successful companies including NOW products,VAXA international,Nature's Way,Innerlight,Nature's Plus.

    Regards
    Last edited by microbiologist; 12-21-2005 at 01:54 PM.

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