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  1. #1
    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    Thumbs up ND as primary care to fill CAM Niche

    The DO | Complement or threat? Naturopathic doctors aim to fill holistic healing niche

    NDs are trying to unite both ends, as primary care docs, in addition to Alternative care providers, similar to what the DOs did 50 years ago.

    Embracing a holistic philosophy of healing that resembles osteopathic medicine’s, naturopaths tout themselves as primary care doctors who can help remedy the country’s burgeoning physician shortage. Tapping the public’s growing interest in complementary and alternative medicine, they have been increasing their scope of practice state by state, much as the osteopathic medical profession did in the 20th century.
    Licensed in 15 states and the District of Columbia, naturopathic doctors have limited but expanding prescriptive authority and other practice rights, with Oregon and Arizona NDs having the broadest prescribing privileges. In Arizona, Hawaii, Oregon, Vermont and Washington, naturopathic doctors can call themselves naturopathic physicians. Last year, two states—Oregon and Hawaii—passed legislation expanding ND scope of practice.
    Most recently, the health reform bill that the U.S. Senate approved on Dec. 24, 2009, contains a “nondiscrimination” provision that could require health insurers to cover naturopathic and other alternative treatments provided by licensed health care professionals who are not fully licensed physicians, points out Virginia M. Johnson, DO, who practices neuromusculoskeletal and osteopathic manipulative medicine in Santa Monica, Calif.
    “Those trained in a limited paradigm of healing who seek additional practice rights—without commensurate education or responsibility—pose a threat to patients,” Dr. Johnson contends. “What’s more, as a fully trained and licensed physician, I feel this is a lot like identity theft.”
    The superficial similarities between naturopathy and osteopathic medicine belie deep differences in training, according to Dr. Johnson and many other osteopathic physicians, who note that the apparent similarities have caused considerable confusion among patients and health policymakers. In a possible example of such confusion, as well as political maneuvering, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in late July 2009 approved budget legislation requiring California’s Bureau of Naturopathic Medicine to merge with the Osteopathic Medical Board of California.
    Some osteopathic physicians, however, fault the osteopathic medical profession for failing to reinforce osteopathic medicine’s distinctiveness. These DOs contend that the profession’s movement toward the mainstream and away from osteopathic manipulative medicine has provided an opening for naturopathic doctors to promote themselves as the true holistic healers.
    But not all osteopathic physicians are worried about naturopathic doctors’ practice rights. A number of DOs work cooperatively with naturopathic doctors, referring patients to NDs in some circumstances and receiving referrals from them as well. These osteopathic physicians point out that naturopathy as a profession has improved its training and credentialing standards, just as the osteopathic medical profession did decades ago. While anyone can claim to be a naturopath, a licensed naturopathic doctor must have a doctor of naturopathy degree from an accredited four-year naturopathic medical college and pass the Naturopathic Physician Licensing Examination (known as NPLEX), administered by the North American Board of Naturopathic Examiners.

  2. #11
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    So you do see a role for ND's in health care? You don't see their scope of practice as being too limited to be of use? Do you think that an ND could actually function adequately and independently as a family physician?


    Quote Originally Posted by UHSADOC View Post
    LOL, I LIKED THAT
    As I call it, HOMEO-PATHETIC !!!

    Not sure why NDs if wish to become accepted INSIST on Nonesense placebo like Homeopathy.......they have too many good things going like Clinical Nutrition, environmental medicine,Physical Medicine & Botanical Medicine, that can actually provide some help....but HOMEO-PATHETIC ??? Common people ?!?!?
    Ha-Ha-Ha

  3. #12
    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    NDs Drop Homeopathy, Add Science Courses

    I think they have a place in health care, but, much to improve on, if they want to be utilized as much as MD/DOs.....
    Specifically:
    1. Increase Admission Requirements, GPA>3.0 and MCAT
    2. Add Residency Training at least 1 year with PCP Focus
    3. Drop any Rubbish courses from curriculum like homeopathy, and focus on evidence based medicine like pharmacology, biostatistics, research.. etc..

    The DOs did similar moves in the 70s, by adopting the medical model, and limiting the use and utilization of OMM to physical medicine modality.....if NDs can do just that, I think they will be more accepted than DCs that remain focused on the "subluxation model" as a cure all for disease...

    Cheers


    Quote Originally Posted by AgActual View Post
    So you do see a role for ND's in health care? You don't see their scope of practice as being too limited to be of use? Do you think that an ND could actually function adequately and independently as a family physician?

  4. #13
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    The DOs did similar moves in the 70s, by adopting the medical model, and limiting the use and utilization of OMM to physical medicine modality.....if NDs can do just that, I think they will be more accepted than DCs that remain focused on the "subluxation model" as a cure all for disease.
    I could see points one and two happening as they attempt to become licensed in the remaining 40 states or so. I could see pressure for them to increase their standards. However, as someone who knows many, many NDs and ND students, they will fight tooth and nail to keep homeopathy. They love it, its their reason to live. When I walk down the halls at school, that is all the NDs talk about is how great homeopathy is. I think forcing them to drop that would be tougher than forcing chiropractors to drop subluxations. In other words, aint happening for a long, long time.

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    I actually talked to several NDs that don't use Homeopathy, I wonder what % of NDs agree with that ??
    Also, I wonder if NDs were offered license condition ONLY if Homeopathy will be dropped out of their curriculum and practice, how many would agree ? I think most would agree yes, considering they have enough in their disposal to treat with evidence based than resort to rubbish sugar pills...

    Quote Originally Posted by AgActual View Post
    I could see points one and two happening as they attempt to become licensed in the remaining 40 states or so. I could see pressure for them to increase their standards. However, as someone who knows many, many NDs and ND students, they will fight tooth and nail to keep homeopathy. They love it, its their reason to live. When I walk down the halls at school, that is all the NDs talk about is how great homeopathy is. I think forcing them to drop that would be tougher than forcing chiropractors to drop subluxations. In other words, aint happening for a long, long time.

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    I think the problem is that it would be too tough to do that because anyone can prescribe or recommend homeopathy to anyone else. You can do it as an MD, i can do it as a chiropractic student, my 17 year old cousin can do it. The laws regulating homeopathy are almost nonexistent and even if ND's agreed to eliminate the courses, all they would have to do is pick up a book on which homeopathic pills supposedly do what and start using it in their practices. Federal laws need to change before you could tell ND's or anyone that they can't prescribe homeopathic treatments.


    Quote Originally Posted by UHSADOC View Post
    I actually talked to several NDs that don't use Homeopathy, I wonder what % of NDs agree with that ??
    Also, I wonder if NDs were offered license condition ONLY if Homeopathy will be dropped out of their curriculum and practice, how many would agree ? I think most would agree yes, considering they have enough in their disposal to treat with evidence based than resort to rubbish sugar pills...

  7. #16
    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    The fact your school require NDs to take these rubbish courses, is beyond me, think it would be better for them to reinforce pharmacology or science evidence based courses...
    Homeopathy was proven over and over to be sugar pills....hence, NDs are wasting valuable time

    Quote Originally Posted by AgActual View Post
    I think the problem is that it would be too tough to do that because anyone can prescribe or recommend homeopathy to anyone else. You can do it as an MD, i can do it as a chiropractic student, my 17 year old cousin can do it. The laws regulating homeopathy are almost nonexistent and even if ND's agreed to eliminate the courses, all they would have to do is pick up a book on which homeopathic pills supposedly do what and start using it in their practices. Federal laws need to change before you could tell ND's or anyone that they can't prescribe homeopathic treatments.

  8. #17
    AgActual's Avatar
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    You don't have to try to convince me. If you are really outraged by it, why not write a letter to the school?

    Quote Originally Posted by UHSADOC View Post
    The fact your school require NDs to take these rubbish courses, is beyond me, think it would be better for them to reinforce pharmacology or science evidence based courses...
    Homeopathy was proven over and over to be sugar pills....hence, NDs are wasting valuable time

  9. #18
    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    Homeo

    Nah, the AMA position paper on quackary and big pharma are WAY more powerful than one flimsy letter coming from an MD......Look what the MD-Pharm Group did in Europe-England to homeopathy, they killed the profession...just google ***** singh, and england homeopathy....it is coming soon to the states as well....

    We have HUGE Med associations that are fighting quacks, and silly programs for our behalf, that is one of the reasons why we are all paying are mebership dues for

    Cheers


    Quote Originally Posted by AgActual View Post
    You don't have to try to convince me. If you are really outraged by it, why not write a letter to the school?

  10. #19
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    I met up with my dad at his office today and had him take 5 of the homeopathic sleeping pills I bought a few weeks ago. He called later and said at no point after taking the pills did he feel more tired or like he couldn't stay awake. I wonder what the results would have been if he took 5 Ambien or even 5 benadryl?

    I mean the homeopaths claim these pills are a sleep aid, shouldn't they make a person tired? Have you ever taken (real) over the counter sleeping pills or prescription sleeping pills? You can't stay awake if you want to. But the homeopathic sleeping pills have absolutely no effect. And it isn't just because they are "natural" or "gentle", that has nothing to do with the fact that they don't seem to do anything. They either have an effect or they don't, and in this case, as with the other homeopathic medications i tried (again, out of intellectual curiosity, not out of a belief that they work), there is no effect. How is a medication with no effect, a medication?
    Last edited by AgActual; 02-17-2011 at 08:39 PM.

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    CARICOM-MED is offline Permanently Banned 529 points
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    It is a "safe Placebo" nothing more Homeopathy was well accepted 200 years ago, when medicine "killed" more patients, than Not seeing a doctor, so the idea of "placebos" worked, and statistically more patients "responded" to homeopathy than allopathic medicine, or survived the medicines, b/c they were all sugar pills or water.....there is nothing in it !! in comparison to Drugs and toxins....

    Cheers,



    Quote Originally Posted by AgActual View Post
    I met up with my dad at his office today and had him take 5 of the homeopathic sleeping pills I bought a few weeks ago. He called later and said at no point after taking the pills did he feel more tired or like he couldn't stay awake. I wonder what the results would have been if he took 5 Ambien or even 5 benadryl?

    I mean the homeopaths claim these pills are a sleep aid, shouldn't they make a person tired? Have you ever taken (real) over the counter sleeping pills or prescription sleeping pills? You can't stay awake if you want to. But the homeopathic sleeping pills have absolutely no effect. And it isn't just because they are "natural" or "gentle", that has nothing to do with the fact that they don't seem to do anything. They either have an effect or they don't, and in this case, as with the other homeopathic medications i tried (again, out of intellectual curiosity, not out of a belief that they work), there is no effect. How is a medication with no effect, a medication?

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