Thread: NDs in California

Its interesting how strict California is with FMGs; yet they are like 1 in 15 states that has allowed NDs to get a license and practise.

First off, the only ND's allowed to licensed in California are graduates of American Schools, of which there are 3 or 4 I believe. Two of the schools, National and Bastyr, have more impressive teaching credentials and facilities than many foreign medical schools, and are both in partnership with their local medical schools, OHSU and U of Wash., both of which are top medical schools. They also have more stringent entrance requirements than many foreign medical schools. When the licensing bill was passed, well over 2/3's of the naturopaths practicing in California were not eligible for a license, and therefore not allowed to prescribe drugs or deliver babies, which licensees are eligible for after an additional 200 hours of training I believe.

I looked into it myself.....and I'm an USIMG who will start my FP residency this summer...

I called Bastyr and the progam i Portland, OR (I'd want to reside in Seattle after I'm done with my residency and fellowship)...

This is what they told me....for a licensed M.D., you can get the N.D. degree in 1 and 1/2 yrs thru advanced standing...

You can practice in Calif from these two schools. N.Ds. get paid $200/hr on the avg and most are cash.....

Their entrance is quite as hard as M.D. schools but facility and teaching are top notch....

I think I will do a one yr fellowship in geriatrics and invest some time in a N.D. They've got faculty memembers who are M.D., and N.D.

For Bastyr, http://www.bastyr.edu/admissions/info/transfer.asp

Applicants who are transferring from another naturopathic medicine school or program or who have taken sufficient professional course work at an accredited chiropractic, medical or osteopathic college, may be eligible for advanced standing in the Bastyr University naturopathic medicine program. All advanced standing students must complete at least 2/3 of the program and do all of their clinical work in residency at Bastyr University. They are eligible for a maximum of 105 credits towards advanced standing. In those instances where the maximum number of advanced standing transfer credits is granted, it will take a minimum of three years (9 quarters) to complete the program. Placement depends upon the amount of course work completed in the original program, similarity of the course content and credits, age of the courses and performance in these courses. Advanced standing applicants must complete all of the course and credit requirements in effect at the time of their enrollment in the Bastyr University naturopathic medicine program.

You still have to do almost 3 years of the ND program. And you will probably be bored during the clinicals.



From the catalog at National, http://www.ncnm.edu/b3pdfs/ncnm%20cat.pdf

TRANSFER FROM MD, DO, DC PROGRAMS
NCNM may award a limited amount of transfer credit for work done in other doctoral level programs. Only graduate-level courses are transferable. Transfer credit will be accepted only from accredited institutions, or institutions that are specifically or categorically approved by the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization. All requests for transfer credit are considered on a course-by-course basis, and a catalog or course
descriptions will be required. In some cases students may be required to take a challenge examination. All coursework must be documented by official transcript. Admissions interviews are required.

In general, it will take transfer students a minimum of two years attending NCNM to complete either program, even with maximum transfer of credit from another program. Students who transfer credit from other accredited institutions recognized by the Council on Naturopathic Medical Education, the Accreditation Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine, or the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization are required to spend at least one year at NCNM to obtain a degree.

This one requires 2 years.


If you passed the USMLE Step 1, it is possible to waive the NPLEX Part 1 exams.

Actually, there are 5 schools accredited by the CNME:

University of Bridgeport
Bastyr University
Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine
National College
(and some Canadian College in Toronto)

Lane College of Integrative Medicine will probably be another once FL passes the law (which could happen this summer).

To be honest, I agree more with the ND 'philosophy' about treating the whole person. MDs are trained more to treat symptoms. NDs are more about solving the problem. Its close to the orginal DO philosophy. However, HOW NDs accomplish some of it is the problem I have. Some of it gets into new age ideals which I am not a fan of (acupuncture, etc.)

NDs don't really get the respect yet because you have illegitimate schools like Clayton who are selling 'ND' degrees for $10,000. They are permitted to function in Alabama as long as they dont recruit anyone from that state. I think they have some type of financial agreement with the state...so they are not closed down. However, these graduates dont have the medical training that the true schools mentioned above give...plus they cannot get licensed like the graduates from the schools mentioned above.

More and more MDs are catching on about better ways of treating patients however. There are more 'Lifestyle Physicians' around....to the point where a new organization has been formed.

Originally Posted by NaturalMD7

Actually, there are 5 schools accredited by the CNME:

University of Bridgeport
Bastyr University
Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine
National College
(and some Canadian College in Toronto)

Lane College of Integrative Medicine will probably be another once FL passes the law (which could happen this summer).

...

Lane College is dead (??). There is a new one in Vancouver, Canada -- Boucher.

All the schools are listed at: http://www.cnme.org/links.htm

Originally Posted by NaturalMD7

NDs are more about solving the problem. .

absurd

Not going to argue. Waste of good time that I will not see again. I can tell you have never researched this based on your response.

I am talking philosophy strictly. Research it. Dont speak without reading and researching. To be honest, I am kinda surprised you dont know this already.

I wouldn't call Clayton an illegitimate school b/c their program is like doing a MPH or MBA online.

Sure, you can't practice naturalpathy in terms of touching your pts but you can certainly work as a dietitian or a nutitional consultant, even in the state of California.

A lot of well known authors are actually graduates of that program.

From what I understand, the administrator of this school didn't cut it in medschool himself. Then when this fitness craze hit the country, he started this program. I hear people used to become easy NDs for $1000. It went up to $10,000 when everyone was trying to get online, finish the course, and be called 'Dr'.

Is it legitimate to sell degrees that cannot be used in a licensed state (for the same type of degree)??? Sure, you can use it in a state that has not passed the law or set up boards. But why spend $10,000? Just study the material and do your thing. Theres no law stopping you from putting an ND behind your name. In fact, I hear some who work for the 'NDs' from Clayton, are starting their own practises without even going to school. They are NDs too....nothing is stopping them.

Even true four year ND grads from the real schools can only practise where there are licensing laws.

I understand they have other programs. Thats cool......I'm happy for them and every author that got a certificate from there. It just not good to sell a degree that is not recognized by the true accreditation body. (In this case, CNME.)