Accredidation Confusion...

[Ibrahim110]

Hello,

I would very much appreciate if someone would clear up the following for me.

I still lack understanding of states accrediting the foreign med schools. Someone says there are only 4 states that do it, but then how come there are states like Oregon that can have their say in what degrees they'll accept or not? And if you go to a med school where your degree will be worthless in the state you want to practice, what's the point of going to that med school to begin with?

I mean I don't think all of us are studying abroad so we can simply end up only being able to work in a VA hospital in Kansas...Or can you simply transfer to a recognized school after your first term of basic sciences and have no problem later on?

Also, I am told that there are only 4 med schools accepted in all 50 states (Ross, SGU, SABA, and AUC). Is this true? Only 4???!!! So going to the others is worthless?

In addition, how come its so difficult to find out which states accept the degrees of particular schools. Even if I dig through a thousand posts I won't find out, nor are the med school websites providing that information. Is there any easy comparison sheet that would tell me or any particular websites I can go to find out if a state accepts that medical school's degree. It would be a shame to make straight "A"'s at a med school, top USMLE scores, and have a top residency, and still be considered worthless in a particular state simply because they don't recognize a school. All that hard work for nothing? Indeed that is disappointing if it is really true...

Please someone clarify, because I'd sure like to know before I make my decision.

Thanks,

Ibrahim

[neilc]

First of all, the term accreditation is a bit confusing. Basically all the med schools are subject to the accreditation standards of the country that issues the charter. Some of these countries have been found to have similar accreditation standards to the US. But, that is not too relevent for licensure.

What it appears you are refering to is the states acceptance, or approval of a specific school. As far as I know, NY and CA are the only states that have an approval process that affects licensure and residency. However, the other states may use wording in the laws that utilizes this status (ie the school cannot be disapproved in any state for licensure). States like IN, OR, and a few others do have lists of disapproved schools, but they do not have lists of approved schools.

INHO, it is absolutely a bad idea to go to a school without universal approval. People always jump all over me and say "but I want to work in state X, so who cares about CA?"....well, my reasons are pretty simple. We pay a LOT of money for this degree. It is stupid to pay this money for a product that will limit you, especially when there are so many better products out there that will not limit you. Further, you may just change your mind about CA or NY or IN. How crappy would it be to have a great job offer in you new wife's hometown of San Diego, and you would have to say, "sorry, I picked the wrong med school, can't work in CA"?

Your degree will follow you for the rest of your life. Your USMLE scores, your quality of life on the island, the profs you loved, the school admin...these things will have a great affect on you, but for only 2-4 years. compromising the rest of your life for the sake of 2-4 years is frankly a very poor decision.

So, be very careful with this decision. Try not to make an emotional decision. Think it all the way through, not just through the next couple of years. Look at the alternatives. Think of how much you are paying, and what a big mistake may cost you.

Best of luck.

[neilc]

Originally Posted by Ibrahim110

Also, I am told that there are only 4 med schools accepted in all 50 states (Ross, SGU, SABA, and AUC). Is this true? Only 4???!!! So going to the others is worthless?

going to the others MAY be worthless, if they are not approved where you want to go. are you willing to risk it?

Originally Posted by Ibrahim110

In addition, how come its so difficult to find out which states accept the degrees of particular schools. Even if I dig through a thousand posts I won't find out, nor are the med school websites providing that information. Is there any easy comparison sheet that would tell me or any particular websites I can go to find out if a state accepts that medical school's degree.

you are not likely to find a state, other than CA or NY who have a formal evaluation process, that will tell you straight out if a school is ok. some states have disapproved lists, but that implies nothing about schools not on the bad list. the best thing to look for is fully licensed grads in all 50 states. not residency placements, not clinicals. don't go for the ** that people spout that says "i read the state laws and see no problems in state X". you are not a guinea pig, don't let them experiment on you. if there are no licensed grads, it may be possible, it may not. nobody knows. if there are licensed grads, we know it is possible

Originally Posted by Ibrahim110

It would be a shame to make straight "A"'s at a med school, top USMLE scores, and have a top residency, and still be considered worthless in a particular state simply because they don't recognize a school. All that hard work for nothing?

this would be terrible. don't let it happen to you.

[OLDPRO]

Originally Posted by Ibrahim110

Hello,

I would very much appreciate if someone would clear up the following for me.

I still lack understanding of states accrediting the foreign med schools. Someone says there are only 4 states that do it, but then how come there are states like Oregon that can have their say in what degrees they'll accept or not? And if you go to a med school where your degree will be worthless in the state you want to practice, what's the point of going to that med school to begin with?

I mean I don't think all of us are studying abroad so we can simply end up only being able to work in a VA hospital in Kansas...Or can you simply transfer to a recognized school after your first term of basic sciences and have no problem later on?

Also, I am told that there are only 4 med schools accepted in all 50 states (Ross, SGU, SABA, and AUC). Is this true? Only 4???!!! So going to the others is worthless?

In addition, how come its so difficult to find out which states accept the degrees of particular schools. Even if I dig through a thousand posts I won't find out, nor are the med school websites providing that information. Is there any easy comparison sheet that would tell me or any particular websites I can go to find out if a state accepts that medical school's degree. It would be a shame to make straight "A"'s at a med school, top USMLE scores, and have a top residency, and still be considered worthless in a particular state simply because they don't recognize a school. All that hard work for nothing? Indeed that is disappointing if it is really true...

Please someone clarify, because I'd sure like to know before I make my decision.

Thanks,

Ibrahim

If your grades are that good and have a good MCAT why not go to a stateside school? If not then Other than Europe what choice d you really have?

[neilc]

Originally Posted by whuds

If your grades are that good and have a good MCAT why not go to a stateside school? If not then Other than Europe what choice d you really have?

stateside schools are the best. as for the europe option, i would agree that the irish schools are a good bet. but, there are others around the world that really don't have any significant limitations. examples are sgu, auc, ross, saba, the australian schools, and uag in mexico. some schools in central europe don't have any significant limitations, but have their own set of issues with language and culture. but, dealing with language and culture issues is a lot easier than licensingi issues! smu seems to be sneaking up the list, but still has issues with CA and IN, and possbily TX. other than that, you get into a higher level of risk, that is best avoided.

[OLDPRO]

Originally Posted by neilc

stateside schools are the best. as for the europe option, i would agree that the irish schools are a good bet. but, there are others around the world that really don't have any significant limitations. examples are sgu, auc, ross, saba, the australian schools, and uag in mexico. some schools in central europe don't have any significant limitations, but have their own set of issues with language and culture. but, dealing with language and culture issues is a lot easier than licensingi issues! smu seems to be sneaking up the list, but still has issues with CA and IN, and possbily TX. other than that, you get into a higher level of risk, that is best avoided.

Yes and there is a problem of some European schools only set up for 6yr degrees, but some are emerging with 4yr degrees, No stateside clinicals for most unless it's one of the "Hope" schools. If this has changed then please update us. Yes risk goes up as you get away from the Big 3, a lot of wishful thinking people want to make SMU the 4th but they are not there yet, not all 50 states. As time goes by I would think that will change though.

[neilc]

i don't really think the 6 year degree is a "problem", as 2 extra years are pretty puny when compared to a lifetime of limitations with a degree. in fact, the 4 year programs are more problematic, as they are not good in all 50 states either. within the host of schools i mentioned, there are a lot of differences in course length, languages, clinicals, etc...but, they all will get you a worthwhile degree.

btw, all this emphasis on US clinicals is so overblown, it really amazes me. it is great and helpful to have some US exposure, and to get LOR's from the states. but, the vast majority of grads from my school have zero US experience, and zero US lors, and still get great spots. basically, if you can manage 2 or 3 solid stateside rotations you will not find yourself at any significant disadvantage to those with all stateside rotations. look at the irish and australian schools for another example of this.

[OLDPRO]

Originally Posted by neilc

i don't really think the 6 year degree is a "problem", as 2 extra years are pretty puny when compared to a lifetime of limitations with a degree. in fact, the 4 year programs are more problematic, as they are not good in all 50 states either. within the host of schools i mentioned, there are a lot of differences in course length, languages, clinicals, etc...but, they all will get you a worthwhile degree.

btw, all this emphasis on US clinicals is so overblown, it really amazes me. it is great and helpful to have some US exposure, and to get LOR's from the states. but, the vast majority of grads from my school have zero US experience, and zero US lors, and still get great spots. basically, if you can manage 2 or 3 solid stateside rotations you will not find yourself at any significant disadvantage to those with all stateside rotations. look at the irish and australian schools for another example of this.

While I agree with you and I forgot about the problem with some of the english programs, you are right some are not all 50 (really if you are worried that much go to one in the USA) For me I'm older and have children in the States so I'll be able to see them after Basic Sci more easily and that's my main reason for my choice. For other's I still think the "BIG 3" are good to go. Yea the 2 years is nothing when you are young.

[jjb1980]

Well, to some extent there is a reason why some go to schools that are universally approved. First of all, they take people that would not be able to get in the other med schools (since competition is increasing at the big 3. . .), but this also means it is likely that they will have a hard time making it through and stuff. Anyways, also people go to some of the less accepted schools because they tend to be quite a bit cheaper. Anyhow, I wouldn't go to schools where I would have problems getting licensed, but I understand why some may want to consider them. Also, some are only not accepted because they are newer, and at one time all schools were newer. . . Anyways, just be careful about making decisions about your future. It is usually worth it to go the route that is the safest (thus the schools that are more accepted, etc.) even if it costs more, but it is always up to the individual.

[neilc]

yeah, i know there are a lot of reasons to not go to the established schools. personally, i am not convinced they are solid reasons, but that is me. i remember how i felt about the first school i got in to, and in my mind i had a lot of "reasons" to attend. they were really justifications, and weak ones at that.

each individual needs to do the hard, critical thinking, and try to remove themself from the emotional side of the decision. base it on what is important, rather than convenient. but, my way is not the only way, and lots of folks are happy with schools i would never attend. as long as the options are realisically presented, and there is no hype or misdirection given by the suitor schools, then all is good. i would just hate to see anybody make a choice based on fairy dust being blown up their colon by a schools admin or students, only to realize what they compromised by making this choice.