Offshore schools may lose federal loans

[wolfvgang22]

Can someone please post the name and number of the house bill and senate bill (it's s.1614) again? When is it up for commitee or vote? How can I find out?
I would like to write my senator and representative also.

Though Saba does not get staffords it is important to further legitimize quality off-shore schools by keeping and increasing title IV funds for US citizens attending quality offshore schools in my opinion. This is important as US med schools become more and more elitist.

[OLDPRO]

Originally Posted by JKDMed

To be completely fair, if they're going after for-profit med schools with entrance standards below US MD schools, they should be going after DO schools as well.

It's stupid political ** that is going to once again screw American citizens. Carib grads are not diluting the quality of medical care in the US; ECFMG and the USMLE as the measures of quality for any physician, regardless of where he spent his first two years reading books.

Wait a minute, DO students don't take the USLME they take the COMLEX.

So it's hard to compare the education between Us and DO schools. It's not admission standards that Sessions was talking about, he said "any one from one of these schools." like all you have to do is go to school then residency, the USLME is forgotten in all the rhetoric.

[Scott1981]

many DO schools have 1st time pass rates in for the usmle in the 60s percentage wise. however, these are only the students that want to take it on top of the comlex.

[Nebakanezer]

If more true FMGs displace those from the "Big 3" as a result of this for residency positions, all the better. In order to get a residency here in the US, true FMGs have to be quite something, definitely a higher quality than what comes out of the Carrib. If I remember correctly the list that came out last year (two years ago?) listing the schools with the highest rate of physician malpractice, the top of the list were a few US MD schools and the carrib. schools, I don't think any major non-private med. schools from foreign countries were listed in the top spots?

As per my previous post, if this causes more students to apply to US DO schools instead of the carrib, it's all for the better. I would rather have more US DO students, and more US DO schools being opened for more students applying to these programs, than more carrib. grads and more carrib. schools. The tide seems to be turning, and it's turning towards DO programs in the US, possibly more MD seats in the US, and true FMGs coming from other countries.

[AUCMD2006]

Originally Posted by InfiniteUni

If more true FMGs displace those from the "Big 3" as a result of this for residency positions, all the better. In order to get a residency here in the US, true FMGs have to be quite something, definitely a higher quality than what comes out of the Carrib. If I remember correctly the list that came out last year (two years ago?) listing the schools with the highest rate of physician malpractice, the top of the list were a few US MD schools and the carrib. schools, I don't think any major non-private med. schools from foreign countries were listed in the top spots?

As per my previous post, if this causes more students to apply to US DO schools instead of the carrib, it's all for the better. I would rather have more US DO students, and more US DO schools being opened for more students applying to these programs, than more carrib. grads and more carrib. schools. The tide seems to be turning, and it's turning towards DO programs in the US, possibly more MD seats in the US, and true FMGs coming from other countries.

it was howard university and UAG in mexico if i recall. maybe someone can dig for the post it was on here.

no one is questioning wether more MD/DO spots are better than what is ion place now which it is but by doing this it will only make US hospitals take in more people from pakistan, syria etc. i am not sure how secure that will be, i've met residents with very questionable views about the US and it's scary that the doors would be flng open to fill spots. why can't they just have an approval process for federal loans that all schools can go through? you guys should get federal loans as well

[jjb1980]

Originally Posted by rrod

it was howard university and UAG in mexico if i recall. maybe someone can dig for the post it was on here.

no one is questioning wether more MD/DO spots are better than what is ion place now which it is but by doing this it will only make US hospitals take in more people from pakistan, syria etc. i am not sure how secure that will be, i've met residents with very questionable views about the US and it's scary that the doors would be flng open to fill spots. why can't they just have an approval process for federal loans that all schools can go through? you guys should get federal loans as well

Also, once again, those who go to the Caribbean are generally American, and American Residencies should go them first since they are really Americans (after all, Americans are paying for the Residencies). Also, I agree with rrod. I have run into immigrants who either don't like or hate America. People such as that are not needed. Others should be given opportunities, but not at the expense of those who are just as qualified and Americans (if they are equal or close in qualifications). Besides, for years we have tended to give more opportunities to outsiders than most other countries do. . . and has it benefited us? It has at times, and it is worthwhile to do, but it seems like what good we do goes unnoticed and unappreciated to a large extent. But oh well.

[jjb1980]

Oh, we shouldn't provide federal loans to those who aren't Americans. . . that isn't what they were meant for. . . and their is no real way to ensure to would get the money back if they don't live in the U.S. Also, we probably don't even have enough money for such a large undertaking. . . and if we do, there isn't the will to provide for those who aren't Americans and don't care about or like us.

[Scott1981]

Originally Posted by InfiniteUni

If more true FMGs displace those from the "Big 3" as a result of this for residency positions, all the better. In order to get a residency here in the US, true FMGs have to be quite something, definitely a higher quality than what comes out of the Carrib. If I remember correctly the list that came out last year (two years ago?) listing the schools with the highest rate of physician malpractice, the top of the list were a few US MD schools and the carrib. schools, I don't think any major non-private med. schools from foreign countries were listed in the top spots?

As per my previous post, if this causes more students to apply to US DO schools instead of the carrib, it's all for the better. I would rather have more US DO students, and more US DO schools being opened for more students applying to these programs, than more carrib. grads and more carrib. schools. The tide seems to be turning, and it's turning towards DO programs in the US, possibly more MD seats in the US, and true FMGs coming from other countries.

not too quick with statistics are ya fellow?

any remedial statistics class would teach you that the amount of docs in the US from a particular true foreign med school would be tiny compared too an established carib school that sends pretty much all their grads to the states.

hence they would be higher on the malpractice case list. "N" is greater for the caribbean. heck..... im sure harvard would have more malpractice cases compared to most true foreign schools.

its all about the sample size. im sure you already knew this.... right?

[swimguy23]

Originally Posted by Scott1981

not too quick with statistics are ya fellow?

any remedial statistics class would teach you that the amount of docs in the US from a particular true foreign med school would be tiny compared too an established carib school that sends pretty much all their grads to the states.

hence they would be higher on the malpractice case list. "N" is greater for the caribbean. heck..... im sure harvard would have more malpractice cases compared to most true foreign schools.

its all about the sample size. im sure you already knew this.... right?

so many jokes, just leavin this one alone

[gluconeogenesis]

It is difficult to resist the urge to reply to posts that go off topic without mal intent, or an intentional distraction or instigation. This topic may be more important that you are aware of at the moment. You may be able to pay for your entire education without loans or with private loans. Just remember that life may throw you a curve at times. Your family may have catastrophic medical problems or the family business may no longer be viable. I might be able to pay for two to two and half years of school without financial assistance if I sell my house and my wife continues to work. I don't think that the typical student is in that situation. I don't know if my wife would be willing to do that.

Where to search bills, resolutions, and ammendments
Provide the search terms along with the web site as the link will quickly expire and not be useful to anyone. Use search terms from the quote below which from a post by "options"
http://thomas.loc.gov/

Post by username "options"
Senate bill "S.1614" has deleted the grandfather clause
House of Representatives bill "H.R. 609" has included it

http://www.valuemd.com/288917-post90.html

A GAO (General Accounting Office) report that discusses some of the issues involved
This is an excellent report by the GAO that was issued in July 2003 "GAO-03-647".
The link was posted by someone on this thread.
"Almost 70 percent of all U.S. residents receiving Federal Family Education Loan Program (FFELP) funds to attend schools are in medical school and they account for three-quarters of the total loan volume."
Dominica has 1 school with an average of 1776 students with a loan volume of $35,235,509.
Grenada has 1 school with an average of 1528 students with a loan volume of $30,666,842.
Mexico has 11 schools with an average of 138 students per school with a loan volume of $27,003,357
England has 189 schools with an average of 9 students per school with a loan volume of $25,405,722
Domincan Republic has 6 schools with an average of 177 students per school with a loan volume of $20,653,159.
Sint Maarten is not listed in the table.
"We found that FFELP is vulnerable to fraud, waste, and abuse in several ways. For instance, many foreign schools do not submit required audited financial statements and program compliance audit reports, which would allow Education to mnitor for and detect significant fraud or other illegal acts. For fiscal year 2001, about 57 percent of foreign schools failed to submit program compliance audit reports."
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03647.pdf#search='stafford%20loans%20and%20foreig n%20medical%20schools'

Title 34--Education
Chapter VI
Part 600
600.55 Additional criteria for determing whether a foreign graduate medical school is eligble to apply to participate in the FFEL programs
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...cfr600_05.html

Link to post by "options" that gives the names of senators and representatives.
http://www.valuemd.com/287853-post70.html