Any advice Will Be Greatly Appreciated.... U.S. vs. Caribbea

[DocAtHeart]

Hi everyone. I randomly ran into valueMD while doing research on-line for the Caribbean schools. The forums seem to be interesting and its great to see that so many people are open to giving advice. I'm interested in receiving some advice for my own case now....here is the story. I just graduated college with a degree in Psychobiology with Honors this past May in the U.S. My first year and a half to two years of college I slacked off and didn't do so well, while my grades after that continued to get increasingly better.....with a final GPA of 3.353. I took the MCAT last August and scored poorly...21. I have great recommendations from two research professors, a pre-health advisor, an additional advisor, and a neurosurgeon whom I shadowed last summer who is the chief of neurosurgery in his hospital. I conducted research in Psychobiology for which I received the Honors part of my degree. I also have one publication for other research that I conducted in this laboratory prior to my thesis. I'm a New York State certified EMT and volunteered on a student-run volunteer ambulance during my last two years of college. I have volunteer experience with children at a daycare center at my college as well. My father is a doctor and I have managed his office throughout high school and worked in it throughout college whenever I'd come home for vacation. I've worked in medical billing companies and other medical offices as well. Pretty much, I grew up around medicine and desperately want to pursue it myself....I have a tremendous amount of passion for it and can't imagine a different occupation for myself. So here is my choice: stay in the U.S. and take a prep course and retake MCAT, and after MCAT this April, find a job in either research or hospital or something else related to healthcare and continue working in dad's office.....OR....apply to Caribbean schools for the Jan. 2004 class. As far as I understand, the three most accepted by U.S. residency programs are St. George's, Ross, and AUC. I only know info. about these schools that they send out in their brochures...of course each one makes themselves sound better than the next. I'd love to hear what the pros and cons of each are from people's personal experience. I understand that no school will be perfect, but anything you can let me know, please do! I never pictured myself going to islands, but now I'm considering it as an option. Of course there is no guarantee that I can raise my MCAT of 21 to 30/31 by April....then I'd just be wasting more money and time....and I wouldn't be able to go to a medical school for the next two years anyways, even if I did take the MCAT and do well. I'm not one of those people that's brilliant and doesn't need to put a lot of effort into doing well...but I am a hard worker, and if I get myself organized and work hard, I do well. Then there is Caribbean....during those same two years of studying in U.S., I could enter a Caribbean school and be done with my first two years of med. school, after which I would attempt to transfer to a U.S. school. I want to go into Neurology most likely.....how difficult is it to get into a Neurology residency (in the tristate area) after a Caribbean school. Any advice or input that you feel will benefit me in my decision-making process would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

[Suzzallo]

It sounds like you didn't complete pre-requisite courses. You need to complete them first then apply. I think you have a pretty good chances for being accepted into one of the Carribean school, not US school.

[DocAtHeart]

I have completed all of my pre-requisites.

[Suzzallo]

In that case you should apply to Carribean Med schools ASAP if you want to catch Jan 04 class. However, make sure you spend a enough time to write and refine your essay.

[Picard]

... and it's a decision that will impact you for the rest of your career. So, my advice, first of all, is to research into all your options objectively. If you are looking into caribean schools, browse through these boards and see what people are saying about each school.

While doing so, I would also urge you to look into osteopathic medical schools in the US. If practicing medicine is your ultimate goal, then keep an open mind on all your options. I work with many DO's, and all of them are great physicians.

If you decide to go to the caribbean... do your homework and look carefully into each school. The popular saying that "caribbean schools are all the same and you will get your MD one way or another" is simply not true. While you may obtain an MD degree from majority of these schools, having an MD means nothing if you cannot practice medicine in the field you choose, and in the place/state you choose to. Currently there are only 3 Caribbean schools that are approved by all 50 states (meaning, their graduates can practice/be licensed in all 50 states) -- they are St George's, AUC, and Ross. Some may say that "Oh, I will never want to practice in XYZ state anyways..." well, how do you know that at this stage? What if, 20 years down the line, life takes you where you are not eligible for medical licensure? The point is, you never know. Keep your options open.

Of the three schools, St. George's is the most expensive -- for a good reason. Everything from the infrastructure (brand new multimillion dollar campus rivaling most US schools) to logistic supports are substantially better. And attrition rates are minimal. It's also the most reputable on the residency market -- I am speaking as someone on the other side of the fence seeing residency applicants. St. George's is also the most difficult one to get into (7 to 9 applicants for every spot). You will graduate with a debt similar to a private school in the US. My feeling is, you get what you pay for. Although educations may be similar, logistic support from is of paramount importance when it comes to residency/licensure applications. You will be buried under a pile of paperwork. Having good school support logistically can make the difference of starting residency on time or not.

The other two schools -- I can't speak for them as I have no personal experiences with their education. Ross has also very recently changed management. So, my advice is to talk to current students and recent graduates. Things to ask (and verify from sources other than official school lines) are: What percentage of entering students make it through the first two years and sit for USMLE step I at the end of the SECOND CALENDER YEAR after starting medical school. What percentage of the entering class actualy graduates in 4 calender years? And what percentage eventually graduates. The figure for St. George's has been over 90++% traditionally. I don't know the recent figures for the other two schools. But in the mid-1990's when I was in school, they were in the 50% range or below... My point is, do your homework and ask these questions... and verify them with external sources.

It's not an easy decision, and whatever you decide, best wishes.

P

[ResearchingGuy]

I think medical school in the Caribbean is a great option, but I think you should at least apply to a US school first. If I were you, I would take an MCAT review course and retake the MCAT. In the meantime I would do some heavy research into Caribbean schools (as well as other foreign schools like in Ireland and Australia). Don't commit yourself to a foreign education until you are sure you just can't get into a US school.

I don't want to seem patronizing but it seems like you are relatively young. Don't be in a great hurry to start school. Waiting two years now to get into a US school could give you a tremendous advantage over us USIMG's when the Match rolls around.

That said, let me suggest a few schools you might check out in the interim:

Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland
Flinders University School of Medicine in Australia
St. George's University in Grenada
AUC in St. Maarten
Ross University in Dominica
Saba University in Saba, Netherlands Antilles (My School )
UAG in Guadalajara, Mexico

Put any of these names into a search engine to get started.

There are many other schools out there catering to foreign students, so this is by no means an exhaustive list. This list does consist of what I believe are probably the most stable and reliable of the schools most Americans are currently attending off shore.

I'm sure there will be those who disagree with my choice of schools, but I think most folks will agree that you should try getting into a US school (including DO schools) before you go IMG.

Best of Luck to You!

[IDreamOfMedicine]

Originally Posted by DocAtHeart

Hi everyone. I randomly ran into valueMD while doing research on-line for the Caribbean schools. The forums seem to be interesting and its great to see that so many people are open to giving advice. I'm interested in receiving some advice for my own case now....here is the story. I just graduated college with a degree in Psychobiology with Honors this past May in the U.S. My first year and a half to two years of college I slacked off and didn't do so well, while my grades after that continued to get increasingly better.....with a final GPA of 3.353. I took the MCAT last August and scored poorly...21. I have great recommendations from two research professors, a pre-health advisor, an additional advisor, and a neurosurgeon whom I shadowed last summer who is the chief of neurosurgery in his hospital. I conducted research in Psychobiology for which I received the Honors part of my degree. I also have one publication for other research that I conducted in this laboratory prior to my thesis. I'm a New York State certified EMT and volunteered on a student-run volunteer ambulance during my last two years of college. I have volunteer experience with children at a daycare center at my college as well. My father is a doctor and I have managed his office throughout high school and worked in it throughout college whenever I'd come home for vacation. I've worked in medical billing companies and other medical offices as well. Pretty much, I grew up around medicine and desperately want to pursue it myself....I have a tremendous amount of passion for it and can't imagine a different occupation for myself. So here is my choice: stay in the U.S. and take a prep course and retake MCAT, and after MCAT this April, find a job in either research or hospital or something else related to healthcare and continue working in dad's office.....OR....apply to Caribbean schools for the Jan. 2004 class. As far as I understand, the three most accepted by U.S. residency programs are St. George's, Ross, and AUC. I only know info. about these schools that they send out in their brochures...of course each one makes themselves sound better than the next. I'd love to hear what the pros and cons of each are from people's personal experience. I understand that no school will be perfect, but anything you can let me know, please do! I never pictured myself going to islands, but now I'm considering it as an option. Of course there is no guarantee that I can raise my MCAT of 21 to 30/31 by April....then I'd just be wasting more money and time....and I wouldn't be able to go to a medical school for the next two years anyways, even if I did take the MCAT and do well. I'm not one of those people that's brilliant and doesn't need to put a lot of effort into doing well...but I am a hard worker, and if I get myself organized and work hard, I do well. Then there is Caribbean....during those same two years of studying in U.S., I could enter a Caribbean school and be done with my first two years of med. school, after which I would attempt to transfer to a U.S. school. I want to go into Neurology most likely.....how difficult is it to get into a Neurology residency (in the tristate area) after a Caribbean school. Any advice or input that you feel will benefit me in my decision-making process would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

Since everyone is suggesting schools then I also suggest you or anyone in a similar situation look into St. Christopher's College of Medicine It is located in Luton, England (30 mins from London) and it is ideal if you are looking for an alternative to the Caribbean. Look at the St. Chris forum for more info about the school. PM me if you want. here's the link: http://www.valuemd.com/viewforum.php?f=31

[MB]

Your overall experience outside of school easily overshadows what you may consider a low GPA, and a poor MCAT. I mean your MCAT based on an average is low, but you are the model untraditional medical student. Few of my friends recently got into some US schools, and I recently heard a story of a girl who got into Harvard medical school with a 3.3 GPA, and a 26 MCAT, but with great clinical and research experience just like yours. Your work experience alone shows your competence as a potential health professional, and your research experience cannot be underestimated. If you were involved in real research, and I mean a few years in a lab working in a competetive highly intellectual setting, your analytical and abstract thinking skills improve exponentially giving you a real advantage when you'll be doing your basic science. In addition your father is a doctor so you have a good understanding of the medical profession, not mentioning the fact that you're genetically predisposed towards becoming a physician. I think you'll be fine, good luck.