AMA article on oral surgeons with antigua degrees

[azskeptic]

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/200...8/prl21018.htm


PROFESSIONAL ISSUES

Oral surgeons bite at offshore MD degree
Most patients assume anyone calling themselves MD has a medical license, but that's not true with some oral surgeons who are using the designation.
By Myrle Croasdale, AMNews staff. Oct. 18, 2004.


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The Kansas Court of Appeals told Steven Thomas, DDS, in September to stop using MD in his practice. The ruling upheld an earlier decision from the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts.

Dr. Thomas is one of several oral surgeons who have earned medical degrees, primarily from the University of Health Sciences Antigua, and who have included these academic degrees in their titles.


Four of the five board members of the American College of Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeons, of which Dr. Thomas is president-elect, use the MD title. None hold medical licenses.

Many licensed physicians believe that this practice misleads the public and raises concerns about patient safety.

Steven Pearlman, MD, a member of the American Academy of Otolaryngology -- Head and Neck Surgery and president of the American Academy of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, said this is yet another example of oral surgeons seeking to work beyond their scope.

"This is parallel to what happened in California," where oral surgeons recently tried and failed to win authority to perform elective cosmetic surgery of the head and neck, Dr. Pearlman said.

"If you are hanging MD on your shingle and you're not licensed, that's wrong," he said. "That's absolutely misleading the public. If these oral surgeons want to do this, they should go through the same pathway as U.S. [medical] doctors."

Dr. Thomas would only respond to AMNews via e-mail. "I practiced oral and maxillofacial surgery for 13 years before graduating from medical school, and my practice has not changed as a result of the additional degree," he wrote. "Nor have I gained any 'competitive advantage' as a result of the degree. It simply expanded the extent of my knowledge and made me a better oral surgeon. I think patients have a right to that information, and the court should not prohibit me from sharing it."

He wrote that court documents gave the wrong impression of the degree he earned.

The court opinion states: "Thomas received this degree through an advanced standing program at UHSA where he spent eight weeks on campus in Antigua."

Dr. Thomas said he completed 18 months of clinical rotations in the United States under the supervision of board-certified physicians, interspersed with eight weeks of lectures in Antigua and countless hours of assignments off campus.

FSMB frowns on practice
Neither ACOMS or the American Assn. of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons keeps track of how many of their members use medical degrees but do not have medical licenses. The legality of this practice varies from state to state. But it is considered dubious by many in the medical profession.

James N. Thompson, MD, president and CEO of the Federation of State Medical Boards, said such a practice goes against FSMB licensing guidelines.

"For all intents and purposes, if you use MD or DO after your name, you should be qualified to practice medicine," Dr. Thompson said.

In Kansas, state law prohibits unlicensed doctors from using MD.

In the appellate court opinion, the judge states, "By using the MD designation when he holds himself out to the public, Thomas could mislead the public into believing that he is a licensed MD who is engaged in the treatment or diagnosis of ailments, disease or injuries of human beings."

Mark Stafford, general counsel for the Kansas medical board, said Dr. Thomas was not accused of practicing outside his scope.

"Our goal was simply to get him to stop," Stafford said. "We were not trying to penalize or stigmatize him."

Christina *******, director of government affairs for the Kansas Medical Society, said the group concurred with the medical board's action.

"Clearly, ... this confers an aura of authority and competence that's misleading," ******* said.

American Medical Association Trustee Rebecca J. Patchin, MD, a California anesthesiologist, said using a degree from an unaccredited medical school further complicated the matter.

"It's confusing to the public when people use a degree from a medical school that's not accredited," she said. "If individuals want to hold themselves out as a physician and surgeon, they should ... hold an active license to practice medicine."

The school Dr. Thomas attended is not accredited by the Liaison Committee for Medical Education, which only accredits U.S. and Canadian medical schools.

Graduates from international medical schools can be licensed in the United States once certain criteria are met. But graduates from UHSA are not permitted to apply for medical licenses in at least two states, California and Indiana.

Steven Guttenberg, DDS, vice president of the ACOMS, also uses the MD designation. Like Dr. Thomas, he obtained his medical degree from UHSA and does not have a medical license.

"The real hubbub is that we don't want to be misleading the public," Dr. Guttenberg said. "If you have a dental license and a medical degree and are practicing oral surgery, that's not deceiving the public."

Dr. Guttenberg said the medical degree gives an oral surgeon additional medical knowledge that benefits patients.

And he said such efforts shouldn't be diminished. "He spent two years to get that degree, and it does give one recognition," Dr. Guttenberg said. "It adds a little bit of prestige and says you have a little more than the next [oral surgeon]."

Dr. Guttenberg uses the MD designation in his practice in Washington, D.C. He said using DDS, MD, doesn't present a patient-safety issue.

"I don't know of a single instance where a member of the public has been injured by someone with a dental license and a medical degree," Dr. Guttenberg said.

But Briant Coleman, a spokesman for the District of Columbia Dept. of Health, said the use of MD without a medical license while delivering health care is not in compliance with District of Columbia Board of Medicine regulations.

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ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
Who they are; what they do
Oral and maxillofacial surgeons, as a specialty within dentistry, perform reconstruction of the maxillofacial and craniofacial complex, including the mouth, face and jaws. They also diagnose and treat diseases related to this region. The American College of Surgeons' guidelines for optimal care require Level I and Level II hospital trauma centers to have oral and maxillofacial surgeons on call. Here's the education path for the specialty.

Four years of undergraduate college.
Four years of dental school.
Four to seven years of hospital-based residency concentrating on the head and neck region, where they train alongside medical residents in general surgery, anesthesia, plastic surgery and otolaryngology. Of the 101 oral surgical training programs, 44 offer dual degrees in dentistry and medicine.
Sources: The American Assn. of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons, the American Board of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery

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Weblink
American Assn. of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons (www.aaoms.org)

American Board of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons (www.aboms.org)

American College of Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeons (www.acoms.org)

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Copyright 2004 American Medical Association. All rights reserved.

RELATED CONTENT You may also be interested in reading:
Doctors at peak of prestigious jobs list Column Oct. 18
Catching phony physicians: Those masquerading in medicine sometimes injure patients Aug. 23/30
California oral surgeons want to expand scope July 19
Federation to review foreign schools after educational standards are questioned June 7



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[october]

"Of the 101 oral surgical training programs, 44 offer dual degrees in dentistry and medicine."



out of curiousity, are the dual degreed grads(above) DDS, MD able to use both degrees after their names even if they never pursued post graduate MD training and/or obtained MD licensure?

that is licensed to practice dentistry/oral/maxilofacial surgery but no license to practice medicine.

[teratos]

Originally Posted by october

"Of the 101 oral surgical training programs, 44 offer dual degrees in dentistry and medicine."



out of curiousity, are the dual degreed grads(above) DDS, MD able to use both degrees after their names even if they never pursued post graduate MD training and/or obtained MD licensure?

that is licensed to practice dentistry/oral/maxilofacial surgery but no license to practice medicine.

Yes, they are, but they go through ALL the training that an MD would. They have to pursue the same channels for licensure (in the MD portion) as any MD. G

[azskeptic]

Originally Posted by october

"Of the 101 oral surgical training programs, 44 offer dual degrees in dentistry and medicine."



out of curiousity, are the dual degreed grads(above) DDS, MD able to use both degrees after their names even if they never pursued post graduate MD training and/or obtained MD licensure?

that is licensed to practice dentistry/oral/maxilofacial surgery but no license to practice medicine.

they ALWAYS license as MD's because they have a full scope of practice....and easier reimbursement from insurance.

[lswiltshire]

JOLLY GOOD SHOW AZSKEPTIC

IN EXPOSING THIS BOGUS SCHOOL WITH ITS 8 WEEK ADVANCE STANDING DEGREES DONE BY CORRESPONDENCE

ITS TIME THAT UHSA BE FULLY EXPOSED AS ST LUKES HAS BEEN

BUT THE GOVERNMENT IN ANTIGUA IS TO TIMID TO DO WHAT IT SHOULD DO


HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU DO AN ANATOMY COURSE OR A BIOCHEM COURSE OR ANY COURSE IN A MEDICAL PROGRAM BY ATTENDING FOR FOUR WEEKS ON CAMPUS?

HOW CAN YOU DO MICROBIOLOGY IN 1 WEEK AND IMMUNOLOGY IN 1 WEEK AS IS DONE AT UHSA

ITS ABOUT TIME THE BOARDS COME DOWN ON THIS BOGUS OFFSHORE SCHOOL IN ANTIGUA

KEEP THE ARTICLES ON THIS FAKE SCHOOL COMING SO THAT PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS WILL STAY AWAY

[johndoe456732]

Originally Posted by lswiltshire

JOLLY GOOD SHOW AZSKEPTIC

IN EXPOSING THIS BOGUS SCHOOL WITH ITS 8 WEEK ADVANCE STANDING DEGREES DONE BY CORRESPONDENCE

ITS TIME THAT UHSA BE FULLY EXPOSED AS ST LUKES HAS BEEN

BUT THE GOVERNMENT IN ANTIGUA IS TO TIMID TO DO WHAT IT SHOULD DO


HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU DO AN ANATOMY COURSE OR A BIOCHEM COURSE OR ANY COURSE IN A MEDICAL PROGRAM BY ATTENDING FOR FOUR WEEKS ON CAMPUS?

HOW CAN YOU DO MICROBIOLOGY IN 1 WEEK AND IMMUNOLOGY IN 1 WEEK AS IS DONE AT UHSA

ITS ABOUT TIME THE BOARDS COME DOWN ON THIS BOGUS OFFSHORE SCHOOL IN ANTIGUA

KEEP THE ARTICLES ON THIS FAKE SCHOOL COMING SO THAT PROSPECTIVE STUDENTS WILL STAY AWAY

I agree. Excellent job Azskeptic.

[soon2bMS]

Azsepktic please post again how the FSMB has agreed on a group to be organized which will evaluate foriegn medical school and make recommendations to the medical boards.

Anyone attending these kinds of medical schools need to bail right now. Get out of these schools while you still have your money sitting in your bank account and not in the hands of these presidents of medical schools that promise you hopes and dreams of being licensed instead of solid evidence of students actually licensed who went through these distance learning programs. Do not fall for the "We have licensed graduates statements." Ask them to give you the names and emails of these licensed physicians so that you can email them. Don't stop there. Once you've gotten the names of these licensed graduates, look them up. If you can't find them, chances are, they are nothing more than bogus people paid by these schools to feed you false dreams and hopes.

Also, make sure that you ask them did they do the full program online. Some of these people who graduated from these schools, came from other medical schools or are healthcare professionals who were given advanced credit and only had to do a few subjects online or were advanced so far that they were able to skip right into clinicals. These kinds of students are the one's that these medical schools brag about to potential students giving them the impression that if you do the distance learning program, you can become licensed.

As everyone has pointed out before, no one in history so far has been licensed who did their entire basic science online. You wont find to many people who aren't professional healthcare workers or students from other medical schools who don't want to have to start over in these type of programs. Believe me, most of these professionals and medical school transfer students have been given advanced credit to a point where the time they spend doing distance learning is few compared to a person with no advanced credits. Additionally, the medical school transfer student come out better even than the professionals because they most likely have 1, 2 or 3 years of solid medical education where as the professional have advanced credit for non-medical school related subjects.

This is what these schools will not tell you. Instead they'll make it seems like all is roses and try to have you believe that if you did your entire basic sciences online, the medical boards would not have a problem with it. I didn't begin to see this until recently. I to started to believe that this could be done. However, it's never been proven and none of these schools, IUHS, UHSA, Vangaurd, OCIEANIA, St.Luke School of Medicine or any other one's out there, have proven otherwise.

-Dr.2B

[Picard]

out of curiousity, are the dual degreed grads(above) DDS, MD able to use both degrees after their names even if they never pursued post graduate MD training and/or obtained MD licensure?

that is licensed to practice dentistry/oral/maxilofacial surgery but no license to practice medicine.

US OMFS grads with dual degrees are licensed in both Medicine and Dentistry. In fact, they can give up their Dental License altogether and it wouldn't matter one bit to them. Their MD license would cover anything they do in OMFS.

And, it's unheard of for these US dual degree docs not to be licensed with MD boards -- simple reason -- their OMFS residency counts as "post graduate training" for MD licensure. In fact, most OMFS residencies require a year of preliminary internship in general surgery... so by the time these dual degree grads finish their internships, they are automatically eligible for MD licensure already. All they have to do is turn in the paperwork.

P

[october]

Therefore they take double the examinations?


Dental licensure exams AND usmle1,2,3,csa

[teratos]

yes