new med school

[azskeptic]

Originally Posted by plasma

As for texas laws and clinicals. Well lets just say I know them well I have a law degree from UH and a undergrad in criminal justice also from UH. I have always wanted to go to med school I had a 4.0 and was waitlisted. I also have family who are Fed Jud. in tx and I chose to go to an off shore school after law school. One reason was my age it is hard to get in to any grad program in Tx for an older person. You can bet your bottom dollar I had checked all laws and any complication that can pose a problem. It's not illegal to do clinicals in Tx for any school. UTMB has online courses for basic science classes. Tx does not and can not follow California Law they use it as a guide line only. Tx will license ind. on an ind. bases. You can go to the state board web site and see what schools that have license sudents in Tx there are many from off shore schools. California states on their own web site under the proposed rules that they have established their own task force and charge for an application fee for any school that whises to be on their list for approved schools. It also states that the board can be taken to court by any school or student who whises to do so. California has created their own task force and it is not a binding force only one who goes to schools and decides if that school fits their criteria. Therefore Tx rides in on the skirt tails and says if Cali says it ok we will accecpt their findings. Again the Cali task force is not a leagal binding agent they can be taken to court and cases can be won by ind. If you want to do clinicals in Tx you will have to follow a few rules
1) you must registar as a visiting student at any Tx med school.
this meas you have to pick a school and registar as a vs and the school will place you in a state/gov hospital.
This does not mean that anyone who does clincials in TX and follows the rules set forth will be promised a license in Tx they can and will refuse anyone for licensure in Tx. If you do not follow the vs rule you may or may not get a licensed either way who knows. I have know life time residents of Tx who went to med schoo in Tx and still did not get a license in Tx one was because of a bad check charge a class C that caused during a divorce. I have also know a doc that had 4 drug convictions a suspension and finally lost his license when he was caught dealing drugs out of his office and sent to prison. So you cant ever tell with the good ole boy system Tx is a strange state with a strange sense of humor. anyway for thoes who would like to go to Tx read the update laws and proposals on the state board web site keep up with the ever changing laws. Call or email to Mrs. Myers at the board she will happily answer and questions you may have. If you need any help feel free to pm me and I will do by best to get the info

Az Skeptic rules of life for foreign med grads:

1. Suing for licensure is like bombing for peace..it is possible but pretty damaging and odds are not with you to change the hearts of those you are bombing/suing..you have to co-exist with these boards for your career. It is better to stay out of schools that you potentially might have to sue to get yourself licensed from...must be better places to invest your $200,000

2. Suing the California Terminators group with its thousands of attorneys makes about as much sense as trying to get a Texas med school to let you study there when you are attending the South Pacific School of Medicine or any other school with potential charter problems.

3. Texas Board of Medicine is increasingly becoming one of the more careful boards on foreign grads. If you think your school or others are in better positions than Ross, owned by DeVry and banked pretty strongly good luck.

Law is a nice field and if you can find people with money to pay for it, almonst anything can be done...most med students,even those with federal judges may lack the resources to change a system from without if they enter with bad ammunition i.e. an education from a school that has baggage.

az skeptic

[october]

Originally Posted by azskeptic

I have checked that out. They will receive an MD from Quater,not from the US. All of the major med schools are jumping on the bandwagon to sell their 'teaching' but they are not above the law. I am very interested to see what the individual states have to say about the country of charter issue so wrote all of them to find out. Will share on this list what I find.

az skeptic

Even if they were to obtain a charter in Quatar, it is undeniably clear that the parent institution is based in another continent.

Does anyone doubt there is big money involved in the Cornell-Quatar deal?

Although Cornell has been around for a while and has brand recognition, there is very little in medicine or medical education that can be called proprietary. The human being is the same all over the world as is Krebs cycle.

[october]

Az Skeptic rules of life for foreign med grads:

1. Suing for licensure is like bombing for peace..it is possible but pretty damaging and odds are not with you to change the hearts of those you are bombing/suing..you have to co-exist with these boards for your career. It is better to stay out of schools that you potentially might have to sue to get yourself licensed from...must be better places to invest your $200,000
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In actuality it is not uncommon. Choices are #an administrative challenge that may or may not go higher or
# relocate to another state

Just put yourself into the shoes of someone that studied very hard for many years, passed difficult examinations, did not sleep for X number of years in residency training who is then told they cannot work because some board does not like their medical school.
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2. Suing the California Terminators group with its thousands of attorneys makes about as much sense as trying to get a Texas med school to let you study there when you are attending the South Pacific School of Medicine or any other school with potential charter problems.
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Not true the reality is there have been a multitude of legal challenges, not only caribe grads/schools but also by grads of old state run medical schools abroad. An ex CMB director named Marc Grimm quit and started offering his services to prospective IMG licensees for a fee.
And it seems the success rate for licensees is significantly positive.



===============================================


3. Texas Board of Medicine is increasingly becoming one of the more careful boards on foreign grads. If you think your school or others are in better positions than Ross, owned by DeVry and banked pretty strongly good luck.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are not talking about amending "Roe vs Wade" These are relatively simple often administrative challenges

[azskeptic]

One could also buy a Skoda car and try to get it licensed in the US. You could buy the car for $5000 but it might cost you $30,000 in fees to get it done if you had to sue the state DMV for licensing it.

Or are you better buying a Chevy Lumina for $10,000?

Suing and medical school when you know in advance there may be problems doesn't make sense...I could see it if you had gone to a school unknowingly and then learned your school wouldn't make licensing requirements..one would attempt to change their situation but you'll find few legal challenges that were cheap...govt. attorneys don't like to lose..they'll take you to the next higher court,etc.

also you could tie yourself up in courts for 2-3 years....most people don't want to waste the time.

incidentally in the case of South Pacific will its grads be in a 5th pathway situation or will their charter be from another country? are they indeed part of the Cook Island school of the same name? lot of unknowns there.

[teratos]

Fact still remains that they will have a charter from the country where the school is. Any institution (Cornell is private, isn't it? So we COULD call it a corporation) can set up a med school in any country as long as the country is in agreement. Why wouldn't Cornell want to make money? They can do it under the guise of doing something good, since Quatar doesn't have a med school. IMHO, Cornell will follow the rules. They will be chartered by the country in which they establish the school. They will also bank on their name. While they are at it, they will make millions.

As for suing for licensure. If I wanted to move to a state that wouldn't license me....let's say Colorado, since they have a bad rep where IMGs are concerned.....I would sue if they wouldn't license me. I was born in the US. I jumped through the hoops that I had to jump through to meet the govt established guidelines. I finished a residency in the US. I am board certified. I pay taxes. Now you gotta show me that there is some reason the medicine I practice will not be up to the standards of someone who graduated from the University of Ethiopia. The you gotta explain to the public why they will license someone born somewhere else who attended school somewhere else, and not a good old boy like me. G

[october]

Agree completely with you.

The most bizarre thing is a physician licensed in any state can practice medicine in any federal facility anywhere. So, lets take the offshore graduate that has passed the exams, done the residency, can practice medicine in ANY state that says they cannot be licensed.

So, if Texas says "no way" to me, I can work in any VA or military hospital. Keep in mind the patients are residents of Texas and I can perform heart-lung transplants on any of them providing they are on hospital grounds, yet if I drive to downtown Houston and advise someone with a cold to rest, drink po fluids, and take tylenol I become a criminal.

I have actually driven in a Skoda, not bad at least a new one. Comparing a car with a licensed professional is not exactly proportional.

BTW, in europe i have seen high end cars that cannot be licensed in the usa; ie ferrari, bmw, benz, etc. What is "wrong" with a "Modena"

[october]

Question 13 seems to be especially relevant
13. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school provide a student health service available to all medical school students?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L9/ from http://www.dora.state.co.us/medical/MDapplication.pdf


QUESTIONS FOR INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL SCHOOL GRADUATES
(PLEASE COMPLETE AND RETURN WITH MAIN APPLICATION)
Name______________________________
A. YES OR NO QUESTIONS
Instructions for answering yes or no questions:
1. Answer each of the questions below either yes or no. In the case where you do not know the answer, check “no” and provide an explanation on a separate sheet of paper. The mere statement that you do not know the answer is not adequate. You must make reasonable inquiry of your medical school for the information. If you have made reasonable inquiry and still have not been able to obtain the information requested, you must set out what reasonable effort you have conducted, including the names of all persons contacted in making your inquiry.
2. If the answer to any question below is “no” you must provide an explanation on a separate sheet of paper. You must explain to the satisfaction of the Colorado State Board of Medical Examiners why you believe your school provided a high quality medical education to all of its students (not just yourself) despite this apparent weakness.
Governance
1. At the time of your attendance, was your medical school a component of a university that had other graduate and other professional degree programs?
Yes No
2. At the time of your attendance, was your medical school part of a not-for-profit university or chartered as a not-for-profit institution by the government of the jurisdiction in which it operated?
Yes No
Administration
3. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school have a chief official or “Dean” qualified by education and experience to provide leadership in medical education?
Yes No
Educational Program
4. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school provide at least 130 weeks of instruction?
Yes No
5. At the time of your attendance, did the curriculum of your medical school include all of the following disciplines: anatomy, biochemistry, physiology, microbiology and immunology, pathology, pharmacology and therapeutics, and preventive medicine?
Yes No
L9/a
6. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school provide for laboratory or other practical exercises in the disciplines set out in question 5 above?
Yes No
7. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school provide for clinical education programs involving actual patients in all of the following disciplines; family medicine, internal medicine, obstetrics and gynecology, pediatrics, psychiatry and surgery?
Yes No
8. At the time of your attendance, were the clinical education programs mentioned in question 7 above conducted in teaching hospitals?
Yes No
9. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school publicize to all faculty members and students its standards and procedures for the evaluation, advancement, and graduation of its students and for disciplinary action?
Yes No
Medical Students
10. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school require three or more years of undergraduate education for entrance into the medical school?
Yes No
11. At the time of your attendance, were the criteria and procedures for the selection of students published and available to potential applicants and their undergraduate advisors?
Yes No
12. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school provide financial aid to students?
Yes No
13. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school provide a student health service available to all medical school students?
Yes No
Resources for the Educational Program
14. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school only enroll the number of students that the school’s total resources could accommodate?
Yes No
15. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school have buildings and equipment that were quantitatively and qualitatively adequate to provide an environment conducive to high productivity of faculty and students?
Yes No
16. At the time of your attendance, did the persons appointed to the faculty have demonstrated achievements within their disciplines commensurate with their faculty rank?
Yes No
L9/b
17. At the time of your attendance, did your medical school have a library, sufficient in size and breadth, to support the educational programs offered by the institution?
Yes No
18. At the time of your attendance, did the library at your medical school have a library staff to supervise the library and to provide instruction in its use?
Yes No
B. OTHER QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION
1. What year was your medical school founded? ___________
2. You must, in typewritten response, explain in your own words why you feel your medical school provided a high quality medical education. In your answer, please discuss the following: How did your medical school prepare its graduates to enter and complete graduate medical education to qualify for licensure, to provide competent medical care and to have the educational background for continued learning.
I state under penalty of perjury in the second degree, as defined in 18-8-503, Colorado Revised Statutes, that the information contained herein is true and correct to the best of my knowledge.
I understand that under the Medical Practice Act, providing false information is grounds for denial, suspension or revocation of a medical license.
_____________________________________ _______________________
Signature Date

[bts4202]

Originally Posted by teratos

Fact still remains that they will have a charter from the country where the school is. \

Actually, I have been told repeatedly by a someone who is starting cornell qatar medical school this year that cornell plans to issue them a US MD, not a qatar MD. I don't know if this is true, the website makes it appear so, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

[october]

Originally Posted by bts4202

Actually, I have been told repeatedly by a someone who is starting cornell qatar medical school this year that cornell plans to issue them a US MD, not a qatar MD. I don't know if this is true, the website makes it appear so, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

Quote from the actual school;

"WCMC-Q is the only international medical school offering the American M.D. diploma; this critical distinction will set our graduates apart from all other IMGs when competing for U.S.-based residency programs. "

[azskeptic]

Originally Posted by october

Quote from the actual school;

"WCMC-Q is the only international medical school offering the American M.D. diploma; this critical distinction will set our graduates apart from all other IMGs when competing for U.S.-based residency programs. "

Well, it is impossible to offer a US MD diploma unless the students graduate from a US med school...guess we'll have to add Cornell to our list of frauds to watch..ha ha.....az skeptic