University of Health Sciences, Antigua

[RoHudTuffy]

I am planning on this being a one time post in attempt to set the record straight about University of Health Sciences, Antigua (UHSA). I am sure it will do as much good as convincing David Duke that African Americans are good members of society - but what the heck. Truth deserves a chance on this subject as well.

Here is a Youtube.com link of a video tour of the UHSA campus. It is a very nice beautiful campus, situated on a beautiful 50 acre bit of land, near English Harbor. English Harbor is a beautiful safe area where multi-million dollar yachts dock. Although the school recieves its mail in St.Johns , the school is not there. The campus has great facilities, and the video shows many of these : nice dorms with modern conveniences, anatomy lab, biochemistry lab, microscopy lab, etc. The drive to the school is beautiful, with many scenic views of the ocean. The beaches in Antigua are great.

Stores aren't that great. There isn't a Walmart there or anything. St.Johns seems a bit dangerous after dark.

Link : YouTube - University of Health Sciences Antigua, since 1982

The school has several schools such as medicine and nursing. When I was enrolled as a student there was about 500 students enrolled. With a tuition of $10,000 -24,000 a year, and that many students, the school was financially sound. While I was on campus I saw several native Antiguans come and sign up to be students and leave checks in payment for tuition. I saw them come on campus, talk to Ms.Samuels, and saw the checks they left on her desk.Most students do the traditional 4 year program.

At my graduation from the school, one of our speakers was a lady who was a native Antiguan who had graduated, completed residency in the United States and is now a licensed MD in one of the states. Also at our graduation, one of my fellow students was from Grenada. Her aunt is the first lady of Grenada. I know Grenada has St.Georges medical school, I am not sure why she chose UHSA instead of St.George's. I am sure with an aunt who is that politically connected in Grenada, I am sure strings could have been pulled to get her into that Caribbean school. But anyway, she was in my graduating class and her aunt was at the graduation. She chose UHSA over St.Georges.

[RoHudTuffy]

UHSA is very stringent on its clinical componant. It requires its students keep track not only of the number of weeks they rotate in a specialty, but also the number of hours. Surgery for example requires 9 weeks and 520 hours. If it takes 12 weeks to complete 520 hours, the hours requirement still has to be satisfied. The school expects a student to rotate an average of 60 hours per week. Hours and weeks have to be documented by the preceptors. In contrast I met a great number of United States grads who had a mix of easy and hard rotations. I don't know of any United States medical school that has as stringent requirements for rotation.

I did all of my core rotations in ACGME greenbook hospitals. I had great instructors. Ex. my pediatric preceptor was the neonatology instructor at an ACGME residency. My general surgery preceptor is a surgery instructor at a ACGME residency program. My internal medicine preceptor also teaches medical students and residents at a United States medical school (MD program). All of my rotations including electives were done in teaching facilities except for a couple of electives (like an out-patient psychology rotation).

I got to do a good number of procedures in medical school rotations. Things like complete small in office surgeries like removing lipomas or punch biopsies. I got to insert nasogastric tubes, cauterize the nose, do injections , shave biopsies, freeze actinic keratoses, do exams, admit patients, discharge patients, perform EKG's, write prescriptions to get signed, run and interpret Toki in obstetrics, do fetal doppler assessment, anoscopy, and more. I got to first assist in many c-sections, lap choleys, thyroidectomies, breast biopsies, mastectomies, appendectomies and more. It certainly was not just shadowing.

I passed all of my USMLE exams , and am ECFMG certified. I applied to a little more than 50 family medicine residencies. I got 18 interviews. I got 2 prematch offers and accepted one of them. I know of a great many of my classmates as well as upper classmen (this refers to women as well) that are in residency around the country at this time. I personally know a number who have graduated , completed residency and are now licensed fully in the United States. I know several who were previously chiropractors, or podiatrists and did the advances standing version of the program and are now fully licensed in one state or another.

The school is not like other Caribbean schools as it does not just cater to United States students who could not get into a United States school. Its goal is to be an international school that trains doctors to serve in underserved areas. Our class president is now fully licensed in a rural underserved town in the west. Students are not just from Antigua and the United States but from many countries, for example in Europe and Africa and have returned home to practice medicine.

[RoHudTuffy]

The owner is a very smart, educated and articulate man. He is very rich too, no doubt about it. Of course all deans of medical schools have good incomes, but he is a self-made man. He spoke at our graduation, and it was very entertaining and enlightening.

There has been alot of untruth posted about the school : http://www.valuemd.com/main-foreign-...ain-regis.html

Almost all of it is just untruth as can be seen now

[RoHudTuffy]

The school is still going strong and growing. For over half a decade people here at valueMD have claimed UHSA is going under financially, they are bankrupt and can't pay bills, graduates can't get licensed etc. Its all lies

The school is now establishing strong connections with a LCME approved school.

Some on this website have claimed the campus is a garbage "dump". It is a lie. It is a clean nice modern well-kept campus.

On the valueMD website, many have claimed UHSA graduates cannot get licensed in Antigua. More lies. I have a fax from the ministry of health in Antigua with their requirements for licensure in that country and UHSA meets all the requirements. UHSA graduates can get licensed in the Bahamas as well if they are ECFMG certified. I have photocopies of letters from the Governor general of Antigua, from the Antigua ministry of health, Antigua ministry of education, all verifying the Antiguan governments approval of UHSA. I have a photocopy of the Antiguan governments letter to the World Health Organization back in 1982 signifying the countries approval. I will try and post the pictures, but if not, I think they can be found on the UHSA website.

[RoHudTuffy]

The school use to have an advanced standing program for certain health professionals such as dentists, chiropractic physicians and podiatrists. They no longer offer it. UHSA use to grant them advanced standing so that they did not have to repeat certain courses such as anatomy with dissection (since a bicep is a bicep on a cadaver whether you are a chiropractic student or a medical student). For some professions such as OMS , they could get out of some clinical rotations too since they had already done ACGME approved surgical residencies.

Anyway, with this old program for example Chiropractors could complete the program in 27 months. They first did some basic sciences in pharmacology, pathology , diagnosis etc. One version of the program involved the individuals being given advanced standing going to the island for awhile to take these courses. Another version involved students getting advanced standing finding an approved preceptor in their area who would get the curriculum for the classes transmitted to them, who would then teach it and make sure the student completed the course work. I did it the second way - I found a preceptor who was a professor at a local United States medical school, they got the curriculum for diagnosis, made sure I did the reading, completed the assignments and then I would rotate with them in their clinic and in a one-on-one manner learn how to palpate a kidney etc on their patients.

Now some have tried to compare this program to the curriculum of United States medical schools, but made many errors. One website erroneously says that says UHSA students who received advanced standing could complete the program in 27 months whereas it takes a United States medical student 48 months to complete their medical school (link : Internet "Correspondence" Medical Schools ) . There are a great many errors on this website since anyone who did this advanced standing version with UHSA did not learn medicine in the "leisure comfort of their homes from a computer" as it claims. This comparison of 27 months UHSA to 48 months United States is a comparison of apples to oranges.

It is because the 27 months at UHSA are done consecutively without break. United States medical students go to school 9 months of the year and take a summers break. So 48 calendar months at a United States school is really 36 months of school. The 27 month program at UHSA was continuous , so it was the same as 3 years (three 9 month years). In reality those getting advanced standing the old way really received 3 years of training, and one year advanced standing. This old advances standing program was 3 years equivelant of training that was very heavy on clinical experience.

There are a number of UHSA graduates who were formerly podaitrists or chiropractors and did this advanced standing version and graduated from UHSA with their MD. They got their ECFMG and are now fully licensed in a number of states. They got advanced standing, did some of the hours at a distance, completed their 4500 clinical hours, completed residency, and are now fully licensed in a number of states.

There are at least 20 states in which graduates of UHSA who got advanced standing or did a part of their didactic education at a distance, can get fully licensed. Plus if a UHSA student gets licensed in any state he can work in a federal hospital (VA, prison, IHS) in any state. So if a UHSA graduate gets licensed in Georgia, they can work in a federal prison in California, or IHS or the VA.

However please don't anyone get any aspirations of getting advanced standing for chiropractic, podiatry, or dentistry at this point. The advanced standing and distance learning is over. The advanced standing was never the majority of their students. Many on this board (ValueMD) have mistakenly believed that the non-traditional students at UHSA comprised all or most of their students. This is another lie. At most there was only 20-30 non-traditional students ever enrolled at UHSA at one time, most have been students doing the traditional 4 year route.

[RoHudTuffy]

The school is very successful - measuring success as graduates who pass boards, get into residency, get licensed and make the school financially solvent. The owner single-handedly set up a Caribbean school almost 3 decades ago, which is still running. The owner successfully was a pioneer in Caribbean medical schools in 1982. He successfully pioneered internet medical learning in the 1990's, although he has now essentially shut it down (I find it interesting that many other schools including United States schools are now , years later, trying to do the same thing by adding an internet componant as part of their learning) . The owner was very forward thinking, ahead of his time. The owner and Dean is well off financially. Its hard to argue with success.

[azskeptic]

Well, the school has been in existence along time but how many grads are there actually practicing medicine? The school has alot of bad baggage with various states not allowing grads to practice. What are they doing about that?

One can find alot of articles

Kansas City - News - Oral Argument

THECB > Academic Affairs and Research > Private Colleges and Institutes > Fraudulent Institutions

University of Health Sciences Antigua - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dentists with a Medical Degree from the University of Health Sciences Antigua

M.D. Credentials May Give Patients False Impression

[azskeptic]

the argument about someone not eligible to license in california being able to work in a federal facility there has been discussed widely here. Most Feds have community treatment centers and thus people must be licensed to work there. If you can't license in the state you won't be hired. FInd someone who you can prove is doing this in California and show us all.

Originally Posted by RoHudTuffy

The school use to have an advanced standing program for certain health professionals such as dentists, chiropractic physicians and podiatrists. They no longer offer it. UHSA use to grant them advanced standing so that they did not have to repeat certain courses such as anatomy with dissection (since a bicep is a bicep on a cadaver whether you are a chiropractic student or a medical student). For some professions such as OMS , they could get out of some clinical rotations too since they had already done ACGME approved surgical residencies.

Anyway, with this old program for example Chiropractors could complete the program in 27 months. They first did some basic sciences in pharmacology, pathology , diagnosis etc. One version of the program involved the individuals being given advanced standing going to the island for awhile to take these courses. Another version involved students getting advanced standing finding an approved preceptor in their area who would get the curriculum for the classes transmitted to them, who would then teach it and make sure the student completed the course work. I did it the second way - I found a preceptor who was a professor at a local United States medical school, they got the curriculum for diagnosis, made sure I did the reading, completed the assignments and then I would rotate with them in their clinic and in a one-on-one manner learn how to palpate a kidney etc on their patients.

Now some have tried to compare this program to the curriculum of United States medical schools, but made many errors. One website erroneously says that says UHSA students who received advanced standing could complete the program in 27 months whereas it takes a United States medical student 48 months to complete their medical school (link : Internet "Correspondence" Medical Schools ) . There are a great many errors on this website since anyone who did this advanced standing version with UHSA did not learn medicine in the "leisure comfort of their homes from a computer" as it claims. This comparison of 27 months UHSA to 48 months United States is a comparison of apples to oranges.

It is because the 27 months at UHSA are done consecutively without break. United States medical students go to school 9 months of the year and take a summers break. So 48 calendar months at a United States school is really 36 months of school. The 27 month program at UHSA was continuous , so it was the same as 3 years (three 9 month years). In reality those getting advanced standing the old way really received 3 years of training, and one year advanced standing. This old advances standing program was 3 years equivelant of training that was very heavy on clinical experience.

There are a number of UHSA graduates who were formerly podaitrists or chiropractors and did this advanced standing version and graduated from UHSA with their MD. They got their ECFMG and are now fully licensed in a number of states. They got advanced standing, did some of the hours at a distance, completed their 4500 clinical hours, completed residency, and are now fully licensed in a number of states.

There are at least 20 states in which graduates of UHSA who got advanced standing or did a part of their didactic education at a distance, can get fully licensed. Plus if a UHSA student gets licensed in any state he can work in a federal hospital (VA, prison, IHS) in any state. So if a UHSA graduate gets licensed in Georgia, they can work in a federal prison in California, or IHS or the VA.

However please don't anyone get any aspirations of getting advanced standing for chiropractic, podiatry, or dentistry at this point. The advanced standing and distance learning is over. The advanced standing was never the majority of their students. Many on this board (ValueMD) have mistakenly believed that the non-traditional students at UHSA comprised all or most of their students. This is another lie. At most there was only 20-30 non-traditional students ever enrolled at UHSA at one time, most have been students doing the traditional 4 year route.

[diogenes]

More to the point, UHSA's own website is highly misleading about licensure -
University Of Health Sciences Antigua School of Medicine - Licenses in the United States
It lists some 30 states, including California, where it says its grads. have been licensed over the last 25 years.
Licensure in Ca. (and in all probability some other states on that list) will surely have been achieved either because of out-of-date requirements, reciprocal agreements or deception.
The OP, RoHudTuffy, is eager to remind us how financially successful the owner, Dr. A., has been. Clearly he did not achieve this great wealth by being scrupulously honest with his prospective customers. Although such transparency is probably too much to hope for from most Caribbean schools.

[diogenes]

This is another "one time posting" on the subject.
Buried deep inside their bloated website is a Medical program B which appears to allow students significant distance-learning opportunities - contrary to the assertion that " he has now essentially shut it (d. learning) down". Personally, I'm all for quality- assured distance learning in the Basic Sciences, but I find it both sad and derisible that it gets so heavily disguised - a sort of under-the-counter product for favoured customers.
I am also intrigued by his joint degree course with London Metropolitan University, a claimed "affiliate". Nowhere on the latter's website can I find any reference to either the course or UHSA - even in the "Overseas Partners" pages. Has LMU also decided that some things are better not mentioned?