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02-15-2008, 04:43 PM
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You can trust the advice you get on valueMD
This thing has a long way to go under Mexican law before it can even dream of getting IMED listed. Mexican law concerning the charter of a Medical school is VERY complicated and LONG. If anyone tell you, as a prospective students that "oh, IMED , it's on the works , we will get it soon" and it happens that the school is planning to operate or operating under Mexican soil, you are on for the ride of a lifetime.
G Max has again reiterated that the Mexican government will not easily certify the JBGDL as pointed out several times last year by Prausnitz on the thread International Medical School of America, the FLIMSY forerunner of JBGDL. At that time Prausnitz pointed out that JBGDL was a branch of a school in the Cook Islands which is now defunct. It was also shown that JBGDL has no recognition by anyone because its mother in the Cooks is dead. And Tamaulipas does not in anyway validate the studies there, nor does it seem ready to do so, they say so in the "legal documents" (now removed from the current website) and it is not certified by the Mexican entity that certifies that country's medical schools. Thus, at least for now, JBGDL is not listed by the World Health Organization or by IMED, or even by anyone in Mexico. The truth is JBGDL does not know what it is doing after all its failed attempts at a medical school. In 2006, it claimed to be an American school with American teachers. When it was closed last summer their agents claimed that they would reopen as a Mexican school. JBGDL now advertises itself as though it is an offshore American medical school, but if you examine its curriculum, it is not that of any offshore American medical school, nor is it that of a Mexican medical school. What is clear is that JBGDL cannot deliver the three year medical education it promises. By Mexican Law, those who study medicine in Mexico in a Mexican certified school must go through a one year rotating internship and one year of social service to the Health Ministry. Even if JBGDL, which is at present recognized by none of the World's governments, is eventually recognized by Mexico, which is something that does not just depend on the State of Tamaulipas, it would have to put students through a 5 year, not a 3 year curriculum. And even then, the FLIMSY's curriculum is so poorly designed that it is still up in the air whether it will get anyone through the USMLE, assuming that the students can ever sit for it. As of now, the current and any incoming classes cannot take it because their school does not have any legal existence, anywhere in the world. JBGDL is NOT IMED LISTED! On May 26th 2007 page 12 Prausnitz further pointed out the difficulties of being recognized by the Mexican government, as reiterated by Genossa Max in his last post. “What you are not aware of is how intricate things get after that. To finally appear in IMED and the catalogue of the World Health Organization, so that the graduates of JBGDL can take the USMLE, you still have to go through three Mexican entities and have one letter written. You have to be cleared by the FEDERAL Ministry of Health to have a medical school. You have to justify why Mexico should have another medical school, and since Mexico already has about 70 and cannot employ all of the physicians that graduate from them, you will have to come up with some great stuff.. You have to be cleared by the FEDERAL Ministry of Education so that the degrees that JBGDL May grant get registered, and those holding them can actually practice medicine. This is where the year of social service to the government will become the obstacle that you will have to overcome. No social service no clearance from the ministry of education or health. Yes social service and you cannot keep your promise of a four year plagiarized curriculum compressed into three years of school. And you have to be certified by COMAEM. This is the organization that corresponds to the AAMC of the US. It is a private-not-for-profit entity, that is an NGO. They are incorruptible. They will want to come and do a site visit to the one-room and the guano-filled installations at Guerrerro and so on, before they give you a green light. Which is something that the ministries of Health and Education may ask them to do before they give JBGDL the go ahead. So you may have to deal with them first. And, you still have to convince the Mexican Minister of Health to write a letter requesting the listing with IMED and WHO. “ QUESTION: What will JBGDL do with the few students currently enrolled? Prausnitz continues further in his exegesis. * A Tamaulipas medical curriculum consists of three parts: 1. The first is the classroom + clinical clerkships curriculum. In this Tamaulipas is like the rest of the Mexican medical schools and like all of the med schools in the US. The person who completes this part of the medical curriculum is usually called "Practicante." 2. The second is a one year pre-degree rotating internship. But in other Mexican states there are schools which do not have this as a requirement. For instance two of the premier schools of Mexico, located permanently in the State of Nuevo Leon, do not require a pre-degree rotating internship. The one year rotating internship disappeared from American medical education decades ago; and in any case it was something that people did after they got their medical degree, so, it was not strictly equivalent to the Mexican requirement. The person who completes this pre-degree internship becomes a "pasante", a word which has an equivalent only in the vocabulary of American graduate schools where a person may be a "candidate" for the PhD, but has not yet written and defended the dissertation. So, the pasante is not an MD, he is a candidate for the medical degree, only. 3. The third is a one year of social service to the ministry of health. This is a requirement established by Mexican Federal Law. Its fulfillment cannot be avoided. Since 1937, when the Ley del Servicio Social was put into effect, everyone who has gotten a valid degree from a Mexican medical school has also fulfilled this requirement. So, what happens is that Mexican medical schools usually let their pasantes stand for their "Examen Profesional" about half way through the social service. Mind you, this exam is more like a PhD candidate defending his dissertation than the graduation from an American medical school, and if they pass they are given the medical oath and granted the medical degree. But even if someone is granted the medical degree, he does not get the actual, physical possession of the piece of parchment which witnesses that the degree has been granted, until that person shows up at the med school with a letter from the health ministry that says that the person has completed the one year social service requirement. Still more... All degree registration and professional licensing is a federal matter in Mexico. Thus, although the person who was granted the degree may now have the piece of parchment in his hands, the parchment has to travel to Mexico City to be registered with the ministries of health and education who now will issue the actual license for the person to practice the profession whose degree he was granted. Now... Americans who study abroad are usually required to be eligible to be licensed in the country where they studied in order to be licensed also in the US. And... Suppose that the Guerrero school gets a certificate (RVOE) as a Mexican medical school from the State of Tamaulipas. If it does get it, then it has to have added the one year rotating internship to the curriculum and the one year of social service to the health ministry. Right there, it represents two more years to its "four-years-in-three curriculum." That is, the Guerrero school will not get a legal RVOE from the State of Tamaulipas unless its curriculum has duration of 5 years. But anyone who would graduate from the four-years-in-three-curriculum-that-turned-out-to-be-five-years-long would still have to be eligible to be licensed to practice medicine in Mexico in order to get back into the US. And... For eligibility to be licensed to practice medicine in Mexico the RVOE which was granted by the State of Tamaulipas to the Guerrero school would have to have been approved by the federal ministries of health and education in Mexico City. All of these transactions, which may seem very complicated to an American, actually run relatively smoothly when the entity transacting them is a Mexican university, public or private. But the Guerrero school is a stand-alone entity - the legal Mexican term is "Escuela Libre", which is owned by a not-for-profit Mexican "Asociacion Civil" which is owned by a for-profit LLC from Texas. Plus... This stand alone school conducts all its business in English and recruits its faculty in the US, and has an American curriculum unlike that of any Mexican medical school, and the curriculum requires that you spend all of your clinical training at yet undisclosed hospitals in the US. THIS IS MY RECOMMENDATION TO ALL THOSE WHO STILL MAY BE CONSIDERING GOING TO THE GUERRERO SCHOOL: 1. GO THERE ONLY IF THE SCHOOL IS REVOE'D. WAIT UNTIL THEY POST THE REVOE DOCUMENT IN THEIR WEBSITE. NOTE THAT JBGDL HAS NOT DONE THIS BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE IT 2. BEFORE YOU GO GET THE SCHOOL TO SHOW YOU THE CURRICULUM THAT WAS REVOE'D BY THE STATE OF TAMAULIPAS, OTHERWISE YOUR FOUR-IN-THREE WILL TURN OUT TO BE THREE-IN-FIVE. 3. BEFORE YOU GO, ASK THE SCHOOL FOR A LIST OF THE HOSPITALS IN THE US WHERE YOU WILL BE DOING YOUR CLINICAL ROTATIONS. DEMAND A CLEAR, UNAMBIGUOUS ANSWER, NOT A PROMISE. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT THE SCHOOL IF YOUR CLINICAL TRAINING WILL BE "AT HOME-ON YOUR OWN." 4. MAKE SURE THAT THE DEGREE YOU WILL GET DURING THE FIVE YEARS YOU WILL STUDY THERE IS ELEGIBLE FOR REGISTRATION WITH THE FEDERAL MINISTRIES OF HEALTH AND EDUCATION IN MEXICO CITY, AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO GET A LICENSE TO PRACTICE MEDICINE IN THE REPUBLIC OF MEXICO WITH IT. 5. REMEMBER THAT EVEN IF THE SCHOOL IS RVOE'D BY TAMAULIPAS, AND THE REVOE IS VALIDATED AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, YOU STILL HAVE TO PASS THE USMLE I AND USMLE II BEFORE YOU CAN COME BACK TO THE US. Prospective students NEW to valueMD, it is true that we have presented this before on this forum last year. But we will faithfully and steadfastly regurgitate the material and organize it in a way that will facilitate your understanding of the deceit and difficulty that you will face in trying to study medicine at this dump- called a medical school. The school may be close to home but it is not what it purports to be. Take the time and slowly (a few pages each day) read the threads entitled GOVERNMENT TO PROBE NEW MEDICAL SCHOOL & INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL SCHOOL OF AMERICA (now on page 2 0r 3) as well as this one. If you have queries ask them on the forum, and you will be helped! You can trust the advice you get on valueMD     
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02-20-2008, 02:13 PM
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I stress that newcomers to the forum must read the IMSA thread
Its almost a year now since the Government of the Cook islands withdrew the charter from SPSOM/IMSA, the parent of JBGDL. The result is that JBGDL has no charter to offer any degrees.
In this post, and others to follow I will bring to the attention of newcomers to the forum an issue pointed out by Praunitz- a person who was in the bosom of the JBGDL admin for over 8 months, and therefore know the inner workings of these matters. A few months before the Government of the Cook islands withdrew the charter from SPSOM thereby rendering IMSA (now JBGDL) charterleess, the IMSA officials sought a better arrangement and sent MB on a mission to be chartered in Mexico. From page 26 of the thread IMSA now on page 3, we read that MB was unable to obtain the charter in Tamaulipas Up until now IMSA – now JBGDL has been unable to secure a Mexican charter after the closure of the school of which it was a branch: SPSOM. THE SCHOOL IS NOT ABLE TO BE CHARTERED IN TAMAULIPAS!!!!! MB was told by two high ranking members of Cabinet of the Governor of Tamaulipas, in December 2006, that the Government of the State was little inclined to grant the charter because: (1) The school was led by someone who claimed to have graduated from a Tamaulipas medical school, and presented himself in writing and in "viva voce" as an MD when in fact he had never been granted such a degree by any Tamaulipas school. He did study there, Egghead was told, but was not granted an MD because he had never completed the schools curriculum which included one year of social service to the Health Ministry. (2) That the school was pretending to establish itself in a municipality which did not even have a high school, thus its establishment there met no local need and it was not justified. (3) That the school had already failed in multiple places and there was no guarantee it would not fail again. (4) The school had always advertised itself as an American medical school, with an American dean, American professors and American students, outside the pale of organized Mexican medical education and with no need of Mexico for anything. Thus, it should not be now requesting to be chartered. (5) That the school had never contacted the federal ministries of Health and Education and gotten a clearance from them to start operating. (6) That the school had never contacted COMAEM - the Mexican equivalent of the Liaison Committee of the Association of American Medical Colleges - and requested to be assessed and approved as part of the Mexican System of Medical Education. From page 26 of the thread IMSA now on page 3, the above pertinent information is re-presented with some addenda. On June 23 2007 Praunitz wrote these truths which have still to be refuted SO…SINCE THE GOVERNMENT OF THE COOK ISLANDS WITHREW ITS SUPPORT FROM SPSOM, AND IMSA/JBGL WAS ITS BRANCH, AND TAMAULIPAS HAS NOT CHARTERED THE SCHOOL, THEN,THE SCHOOL HAS ABSOLUTELY NO LEGAL EXISTENCE AT ALL, AND ANY THING THAT IT MAY ISSUE TO STUDENTS, SUCH AS GRADES AND DEGREES IS COMPLETELY WORTHLESS. Don’t even waste a minute thinking about putting up your hard earned money, or getting yourself $51,000 in debt until you see a scan of the Tamaulipas charter published in the imsaonline website, even if ZTRUTH says they got it. Remember, he does not work for the school.But…Even if you see a charter issued by the State of Tamaulipas, BEWARE. It does not mean that the schools has already been or is about to be appropriately listed by those authorities which need to list it so that you can qualify to sit for the USMLE I and II and get yourself into a residency in the US, because…The ultimate validity of a charter issued by Tamaulipas to IMSA/JBGL depends on its being accepted by the Mexican federal ministries of Education and Health.THIS MEANS YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL IMSA/JBGL - - PROVIDES OFFICIAL PROOF THAT THESE TWO MINISTRIES HAVE VALIDATED THE CHARTER ISSUED BY THE STATE OF TAMAULIPAS. But…Even if the federal ministries of Education and Health validate a charter issued by Tamaulipas to IMSA/JBGL, BEWARE:You have to examine the curriculum that the school was chartered with. The charter will not be issued unless the curriculum of the school includes a one year rotating internship and one year of social service to the government. THIS IS MEXICAN LAW. You could be granted a “degree” from IMSA/JBGL without going through the internship and the Social Service, because your are an American and have no intentions to practice in Mexico (that is, you go to a "fast track."). But you have to know that a “degree”, granted without completing the internship and the social service requirements (granted through a subterfugal "fast track") by law would not make you eligible to be licensed to practice in Mexico.And you must also know that if you are not eligible for a Mexican license, even if you are an American, you will not be eligible to be licensed to practice in Texas, and probably most other states of the US.Why? Because, even if you are an American, if you get a degree from a chartered Mexican medical school it is required that you be eligible for a Mexican license before you are eligible for a license in Texas, and probably almost all states of he US. And when ZTRUTH talks about a “fast track” available to the students that enroll at IMSA/JBGL he seems to be talking about a subterfuge through which the school would be willing to issue its American stustudents a degree that does not meet all of the requirements that make them eligible to be licensed in Mexico and therefore in the US.HIS ‘FAST TRACK” MAY NOT BE MORE THAT FAST WORDS, BUT THEY ARE NOT OFFICIAL ANYWAY!!!! Last edited by lswiltshire; 02-20-2008 at 02:16 PM.
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02-20-2008, 06:41 PM
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I think people have been well informed already about this thing, as I said in the twin thread, from a legal view I don't see how ANYONE can get licensed in the USA without an IMED listing, I also doubt you can get licensed in Mexico having dealt with Mexican Law before. By the way, if anyone can be so kind as to explain the legal status of this school under Mexican law? Not the permit to operate from the State of Guerrero, anyone can get that, eve I can get one if I want to, I mean from the Government of the Republic en el D.F.
Unless you want to keep your infomercial on why people should not attend this thing, I am sure they already got the message.
__________________
...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion 
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02-20-2008, 07:15 PM
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I am merely putting out the message
You got the message, and I got the message, but there are many who are lost, and have not heard the message or and do not understand the message.
My role is to make the message clear and to repeat the message, so that some how, some time.they wil get the message. This is my passion. You have your way; I have mine. You know it all, but many who come on this forum seeking advice dont know their left hand from thier right. If you can add something to what I said please do so. If you cant, please leave me alone I beg you. I dont comment on your posts except to agree or corroborate truth. You dont like my Bible quotes (that is if I put the reference else you wont know where I am quoting from) you dont like me repeating things, you dont like, this you dont like the other. I like what I say and I like how I say it. I guess you feel the same way about your posts. Why dont you just leave it like that Oh mighty omniscient one!
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02-20-2008, 11:11 PM
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Well my point is simple, you have posted soooo much about this with the same thing over and over that it is quite difficult for anyone to "miss it" or not get the message as you say. Are you sure this is a passion or an obsession? Not personal, don't mean to insult you or anything like that. Just a mere observation
 Quote:
__________________
...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion
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02-22-2008, 03:08 AM
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TRUTH vs **
TO MY DEAR STUDENTS AT JBGDL, I HAVE THE FOLLOWING ADVISE:
LOOK AT WHAT FATMAX HAS WRITTEN ABOVE. THIS COUCH VEGI KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. YOU CAN TRUST THAT DR. KNOWHOW IS WORKING TO OBTAIN THE LISTING. ADMINISTRATION AT JBGDL ARE HONEST, COMPETENT, AND HAVE THE MEANS TO DO IT. THEY HAVE COMPETENT HELP TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, FOR SURE. HOWEVER, IF WITHIN A YEAR THEY HAVE NOT DONE IT; TRANSFER TO SOME OTHER RECOGNIZED MEXICAN MED SCHOOL.
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02-22-2008, 08:30 AM
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Well, now that you insist, one year is your timetable, one year it will be, let's see who gets IMED listed first JBGDL or CMU. Let's make it February 22 2009. See you then.
Max Quote:
__________________
...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion
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02-22-2008, 11:44 AM
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When IMSA now JBGDL first came to attention, they claimed to be "an American school, with an American Dean, American faculty, American curriculum and American medical students." However, in less than 8 months it went belly up and crashed. On June 18th 2007 JBGDL vocal administrator posted on valueMd page 27 of the IMSA thread that JBGDL ………… are just preparing their students to be successful Medico Cirujanos in Mexico and eventually have the know-how to come across the border to be recognized MDs if they so desire. They are starting small and will not make the same mistakes twice. Like hiring high-priced incompetence. Thus it was that in the hope of getting the REVOE JBGDL changed its tune and claimed to have given up on their original American school, with an American Dean, American faculty, American curriculum and American medical students to a school for minorities underrepresented in medicine, to a school for "successful Medico Cirujanos in Mexico..." Note that Mexican medical schools grant two medical degrees equivalent to the American MD: 1. Medico Cirujano which translates as Physician-Surgeon, and 2. Medico Cirujano y Partero, which translates as Physician-Surgeon-Midwife JBGDL then realized that to prepare physicians to practice successfully in Mexico (who may eventually make it to the US.) they would need a Mexican, not American curriculum, that includes a one year rotating internship and one year of social service to the health ministry in Mexico. However, close observation of the current JBGDL curriculum reveals that it is neither that of Mexican medical school or that of an American medical school. JBGDL has changed its tune again, because of their obvious deceit and dishonesty. JBGDL vocal whinner claimed that they are restarting small; after all not many except the very desperate will attend. He claimed that they would not make the same mistakes twice, like hiring high-priced incompetence, but yet from their ad in Higher Chronicles on Jan 7th it was clear that they are still hiring a long distance Dean, and that they are offering very high wages in the hope of attracting tutors to that deserted dismal dump.. DON’T BE FOOLED BY JBGDL RHETORIC, COWS COME AND GO BUT THE BULL AT JBGDL WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND UNLESS JBGDL IS STARVED TO DEATH! LS boasted that IMSA WONT BE A SHAM SCHOOL UNDER A PIZZARERIA, but truth be told you will get a better education at such an institution, than at the one door place without faculty and facilities. The only way the standard of offshore American medical schools will be raised is if American students will apply to the top four schools. If they fail to be accepted there they should seek admission at the schools in the next level. They must abhor and forget those schools who insult them by not offering proper facilities and faculty. In this way the dross and the shaft will be eliminated, leaving only the very best. Having myself attended a school of excellence and an excellent school, I am proud to be considered to be obsessed in seeking high standards in medical schools. I was taught to be steadfast and always abounding in the good work, knowing that my labor will not be in vain. AT THIS POINT JBGDL IS NOT LISTED WE ALL AGREE THAT IN MEXICO THAT THE PROCESS IS LONG & CONVOLUTED WE ALL AGREE THAT JBGDL IS THE WORSE POSSIBLE OFFSHORE SCHOOL EVER
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02-22-2008, 01:16 PM
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Go To A School That Does Things Properly
I find ztruth very rude to refer to Genossa as fatmax and a couch vegi. What he does not know people, is that Genossa max is a lawyer, and he DOES INDEED KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT! We must all agree with G Max when he posits that “I don't see how ANYONE can get licensed in the USA without an IMED listing, I also doubt you (i.e JBGDL ) can get licensed in Mexico having dealt with Mexican Law before. Quae cum ita sint (that being the case) it makes no sense what so ever for NEW STUDENTS TO ENROLL AT THIS SCHOOL, AND THEN WAIT A YEAR FOR THE SCHOOL TO BE IMED LISTED. The students who started in July 2006 did a similar thing, and they had to start over again. If JBGDL is not listed by 22Feb 2009, they would have wasted yet another year. GO TO A SCHOOL THAT DOES THINGS PROPERLY LIKE UMHS THAT IS NOW GOING TO START IN ST KITTS. NOTE THAT THIS SCHOOL LIKE MANY OTHER NEW ONES GOT A CHARTER AND IMED LISTING BEFORE STARTING THEIR SCHOOL. THESE SCHOOLS PUT THE HORSE BEFORE THE CART. BECAUSE THEY HAVE HONEST, COMPETENT, AND KNOWLEDGEABLE DEANS; NOT HIRELING LONG DISTANCE DEANS. SUCH REAL SCHOOLS ARE LED BY MEDICAL SCHOLARS. I have not in my time ever seen a school’s administration make an announcement such as IF WITHIN A YEAR WE HAVE NOTGOT IMED LISTING; TRANSFER TO SOME OTHER RECOGNIZED MEXICAN MED SCHOOL. In other words, waste a year with us in the hope that we will get listed. Does that make sense? I think not!
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02-22-2008, 05:54 PM
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I am taking him on his one year time frame, Feb-22-2009 for the IMED listing. In the mean time anyone who enrolls is wasting their energy and $$$. Even the blind can see through this. The excuses for not happening will be entertaining. I bet CMU will get theirs first.
 Quote:
__________________
...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion
Last edited by Genossa maximillian; 02-22-2008 at 05:57 PM.
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ztruth