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01-13-2008, 05:47 PM
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This thread is getting pretty close to being closed for flames and tos violations. let me make this crystal clear to all:
STAY ON TOPIC and TAKE OUT THE PERSONAL STUFF RIGHT NOW I dont care how long any of you have been working in any profession, or what youre personal religious beliefs are, or indeed, if you have any. Any further tos violations will get immediate infractions. Several people have requested a thorough review of this thread and the mods are all going to look through it. Any violations, no matter how many days ago they occurred, will get immediate infractions, no courtesy pm. No negotiation. Youve got as long as it takes the mod to go through this to fix it. starting now.
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Steph If you get a warning, put on yer manpants and stop whining about it.     
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01-24-2008, 01:26 PM
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vindicative is not the same as vindictive
I hope that I am not accused of going overboard for posting this letter received from one of my ex students at IMSA. In this letter I am criticized for being vindiCTIVE, and selfish. But that is definitely not the case, but I will confess to having sought to vindiCATE my self for the war I have sought to wage for truth, and for the benefit of prospective medical students whose main interest is only to receive a proper medical education in a timely fashion at a reasonable cost. I really love medical students, and hate to see them suffer.
Dear Dr. I hope that you and N find yourself in good health. It has been a long time since you left and many great things have happened here in Guerrero. But an urgent matter has come to my attention. Apparently you have been busy informing the media and others in the Cook Islands of IMSA/SPSOM's "hypocracy." That you have sending copies of emails to people in the Cooks, in an attempt to discredit the "Dean" and the school. Well, my friend, that is wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong. Do you not realize that you already have a medical degree, and Dr. S already has a medical degree, and Dr. D already has a medical degree, as well, as Dr. G??? J and I do not have a medical degree, and we are trying to get one.You, yourself, spoke of not "leaving us as orphans"and left us many powerpoints of information to get caught up on the basic science, and we appreciated it. But by going after the school, you are indirectly going after us, the students! I am not agreeing with some of the treatment that you were given nor the results, but nor do I agree with such un-Christian behavior from a man who has multiple theological degrees. Not even the Lord himself, who had a reason to accuse his betrayers, did not do such a thing. You are a very intelligent man and has much wisdom and understanding about medicaland theological issues, but in this case, I humbly ask you to stop your attempts to discredit IMSA/SPSOM and its administration/faculty because it is affecting us, the students, the ones you claimed were the reason you stood up for. Two wrongs does not make a right, sir. Again, your attempt to rectify your sense of injustice is not correcting any issues, only placing added undue burdens on us. These emails appear to me as some sort of personal vendetta of yours and they must stop, for they are only truly discrediting you. When I heard of such things, I couldn't beleive it. I couldn't beleive that a man of such great faith and power could bring himself to go after such a miniscule school, in the middle of nowhere. I was disillusioned.
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01-24-2008, 07:05 PM
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You shouldn't post an email here for everyone to view and read that was sent to you with the presumed expectancy of being private. Again, you are trying to advance your cause the wrong way, posting private issues between you and this school and or it's students in a public forum for everyone to view.
Just my thoughts. Quote:
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...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion 
Last edited by Genossa maximillian; 01-24-2008 at 09:48 PM.
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01-26-2008, 12:23 PM
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well
I noticed that JBGDL has removed their ad from Chronicle Of Higher Education. So did LSW expose their little scheme so they quickly removed it?
What is certain is that IF they are paying the high salaries quoted in that ad, they are losing money big time with only 7 students. Prospective students must see that by enrolling at JBGDL, they will be essentially throwing their good money into a place where the administrators will burn it so fast that it will be gone long before they can finish two semesters properly. We have already seen that occur with 4 of the 7 students from last year. I find it very interesting that since January 2nd when the new thread was started by azskeptic, that the thread has received 1,500 hits, and that both the imsa thread (now on page 2) and the govt to probe thread have received over 1,000 hits in that time period. That says to me that there is a fairly significant interest in hearing about and watching how a so-called “medical school” operates over time… Although some disagree with the way some posts are presented, the big picture is that the threads do provide a history of this place, and it is evident from the very first threads about the “school” several years ago (which you have to dig to find) that this school keeps re-inventing itself… and so I think we need to be vigilant here – whatever it takes – to warn others about it. To some of us who have been around awhile, it may be old news. We get what’s going on. But certainly there are others just joining on a daily basis. Maybe there isn’t always exciting news about it. But I can see the reason for making sure it stays a visible thread. Last edited by kingkong; 01-28-2008 at 02:40 PM.
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01-28-2008, 04:13 PM
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Can you believe anything any one at JBGDL says?
There are a few things that must be understood and made very clear about JBGDL supporters. The ability to lie and the penchant for hypocrisy.
When the class president indicated that many great things had happened at Guerrero between December 2006 and April 2007, from a review of the record on the post Government to Probe it was clear even at that time that many not so good things had transpired that affected these peculiar institutions. By then on 9 March 2007 the cabinet of the Cooks Government had approved the decision not to give support to the continued establishment of the school as an international medical school, not to grant a temporary charter of three years, not to create a monitoring committee and not to provide permission or support for active recruitment of students to the school. By then on 21 March 2007, the Cooks Government had reversed its decision to let the South Pacific School of Medicine set up in Rarotonga and had withdrawn its approval to allow the medical school the go ahead. This mean the school had no charter and could not be IMED listed. More on this later. For now if they have not by now erased it the school for once admits this by promising that IT WILL BE IMED LISTED. By 23 March, 2007 it was known that the Cook Islands government had announced its withdrawal based on the findings of a Ministry of Health review team led by New Zealand consultant Debbie Sorensen. The review by this team were negative in their assessment of the school and raised questions over the credibility of its operator. Has anything changed there? Can prospective students and tutors trust someone that does not keep their word? By 24 March 2007, a report by Health Specialists (NZ) consultant Debbie Sorensen on the South Pacific School of Medicine (SPSOM) expressed concern that some of the school's seven lecturers were not real medical doctors as is the norm at medical schools in that part of the world. At that time the school was unable to present a clear organisational structure or documentation to verify sources of funding, revenue, legal entities and links to a parent organization, and the experience, qualifications and skills of the proposed faculty were thought to clearly show limited clinical and academic experience and coupled with lack of evidence of documentation, indicated lack of capacity to operate as an internationally recognised school. Furthermore, the school was described as unable or unwilling to answer a number of questions making it undesirable for government to support them. [ Can prospective students and tutors discern or perceive sources of funding, revenue, legal entities and links to a parent organization for JBGDL today? Can they tell you where the clinical sites are? After all, the first batch of students were supposed to be in clinicals all like now, if it were not for the canceling of the Cooks islands charter. Have they yet indicated the capacity to operate as an internationally recognised school?]. At that time, it was discovered that the school was unable to provide a level of confidence that the school was able to deliver what it purported to, and the advice to government was to not approve the school's request for a temporary three-year charter and support of its recognition as an international school. SPSOM has now been operating for ten months. [Does it provide a level of confidence that it is able to deliver what it purports to do even now?] That there was no clear organisational structure is clear from the website and the detailed posts of yours truly which indicated that there was no organisation at either SPSOM or its sister school at Guerrero. Perusal of the new JBGDL website and the evidence from the cancelled Chronicle of Higher Ed advertisement reveal that nothing has changed. THERE IS STILL A LONG DISTANCE DEAN WHO IS NOT COMPETENT ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT YOU CANT PLACE AN AD FOR STAFF ON THE DAY THAT THE NEW SEMESTER STARTS. You need to get them in place before school starts. Just as one year ago SPSOM was exposed in the Cooks for what it really is-- a totally bogus charade; today we find that its offspring JBGDL is still in the same boat. Nothing has really changed. When the class president indicated that many great things had happened at Guerrero between December 2006 and April 2007, the Dean LD had already left, and his place taken over by someone with no medical degree or background in medical education. This person is/was an elementary school teacher in one of the school districts of the region, and a replacement teacher with a Master’s degree sacked for negotiating for grades with a female student. Not even in the worst off shore Caribbean med school will you see a teacher who does not have an MD or its equivalent or PhD as the teachers. Masters level teachers are not accepted, but JBGDL has to scrape the barrel and hire men known to have been convicted for negotiating for grades. JBGDL has no respect for or any of its students.. Can you believe anything any one at JBGDL says?
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02-05-2008, 11:56 PM
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JBGDL has not delivered on the boasts and promises of vivaimsa.
From June 14 to September last summer VIVA IMSA appeared on the IMSA thread now on page 2 of this forum as a poor attempt as an IMSA JBGDL apologist! Let us respond to his boasts then, in the light of what has transpired since. You will find that VIVA IMSA made many boasts and promises, but that JBGDL has definitely not delivered.
1-VIVA IMSA WROTE I have been reading with humor the comments from the same 3 writers. It seems that no one else is interested in responding. How funny, they write to each other in support of their inside knowledge/comments about IMSA. RESPONSE. Though no one responded on the forum, the thread received over 26,000 hits. That folk believed the inside knowledge/comments of the posters, has resulted in few faculty or students rushing over the border to the rehashed JBGDL. 2- VIVA IMSA WROTE This name calling disappoints because now I don't know what their internal motives are. Had they stayed within the boundries as "professionals", I would have considered their comments as "respectable". So for now, I don't buy their comments. RESPONSE. The persons whom we wanted to buy our comments have done so. 3- VIVA IMSA WROTE I was told that IMSA now has a "top-of-the-line" employee who is totally dedicated to the school's success and who is a great leader"! This person not only "talks" about what needs to be done, but BELIEVES IN THIS MEDICAL SCHOOL. RESPONSE. It is obvious that the dedicated "top-of-the-line" employee who believes in JBGDL can not DO what needs to be done despite his beliefs and dedication. This uninformed dedicated "top-of-the-line" employee does not know how to manage the curriculum, or that you cant run a school with a long distance Dean, or that you try to hire faculty before the start of term. Perhaps he is having trouble like the founding Dean had. He does not have the funds with which to plan ahead. 4- VIVA IMSA WROTE Iswiltshire, Unfortunatedly, your responses are "personal and vindictive". RESPONSE Actually my posts remain practical, pertinent, and they vindicate me; indicating that I knew what I was saying and doing from the beginning! My posts are so truthful that JBGDL can not refute anything I say. They are so very effective that JBGDL can only respond by sending nasty letters with the intent to intimidate.. 5-VIVA IMSA WROTE your writing is just a repetition of the same old story. Do not repeat the old stuff since your readers will get bored and will probably not read you comments. Do not Assume that all the you write will be read as "facts" since readers are smater than you think. RESPONSE: The TRUTH does not change. When you are telling the truth, you cant change the message. At any rate, it seems you have erred. Look at the number of hits the anti IMSA/JBGDL threads have taken. Look at the results in terms of your inability to get droves of students and faculty. 6- VIVA IMSA WROTE It seems to me that what once was consider negative comments by Iswiltshire and Prausnitz could very well be used by IMSA's students/ emloyees/officials to determine if such standards are or will be meet. I am sure that IMSA thanks you well for such detail directions/instructions and standards. And all of this information was free! What was a negative (or so they thought) now is a positive. Keep it coming, it is really helping IMSA brush up on its entire program. IMSA should say, "Thank you for sharing your ideas on what IMSA needs to 'check-off' If I were them, (senior management) I would take those free negative comments and use them as productive criticism. I would even go as far as copying them and then use them.” RESPONSE: Clearly you are contradicting yourself. How can my comments be negative and positive at the same time? Unfortunately IMSA/JBGDL have still not learned to copy anything properly. You still have not changed your modus operandi 7- VIVA IMSA WROTE Give IMSA a month or so, and then visit their campus and interview students. I know that all visitors and prospective students are going to be very, very pleased with IMSA. IMSA has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to hide. RESPONSE; Is now many months since and your campus is the same and your students are still having delusions of grandeur. Even four of your students left. All you could attract in a whole year was four new students. You had so little to hide that you hid your website anyway, in the attempt to operate under the radar. 8- VIVA IMSA WROTE Yes, IMSA did have a delay but it was attributed to the heavy, heavy ex-employees like "fat Albert" and "Humpty Dumpy". RESPONSE: Yes the IMSA student pioneers had a lengthy delay of ONE WHOLE YEAR. They had to repeat a year of studies, as they completed no known courses in any medical school curriculum. It seems that even without "fat Albert" and "Humpty Dumpy" that they still have it wrong. Seems that these folk were wrongly blamed last time. They still have a long distance Dean, and problems with practical curriculum or schedule. Who advertises for teachers at the beginning of a term? These issues were not caused by either "fat Albert" and "Humpty Dumpy" last time in 2006, or this time when the school resurfaced for the nth time as JBGDL. Can prospective students risk a year of your time? 9- VIVA IMSA WROTE I understand that IMSA is looking for highy qualified professors who want to teach at the Jose Bernardo Gutierrez de Lara. Please contact them ASAP! RESPONSE: We understand the same from the ad in Higher Chronicle on January 7th 2008. Since you advertised in February and in May 2007, one might have thought that you would have got some before the start of your second semester on on January 7th 2008. 10- VIVA IMSA WROTE JBGDL's new website will soon be ready. JBGDL has hired Top-Notch employees who really know both educational medical systems. RESPONSE: Top notch employees who still can’t put out a practical curriculum or schedule, and who at the beginning of the second semester are for the first time advertising on Chronicle of Higher education for staff? Top notch indeed. 11- VIVA IMSA WROTE Do I need to give you the website or can you find it on your own? RESPONSE: We did not know it then, but JBGDL were planning to “hide” the website under the radar. But we found it any way, and without looking. It is really true that you can hide and buy land, but you can’t hide and work it. 12- VIVA IMSA WROTE You little boys have NO idea what is coming up. All in time...all in time! RESPONSE: We know now don’t we. Nothing has changed. An inferior program still, with Twideldeedee and Twideldeedumb still trying hard to learn how to run a school. One can go to the posts on the IMSA thread on page 2 and check all posts by vivaIMSA if you doubt that he made these boasts.
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02-05-2008, 11:58 PM
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Didn't you and others already responded to all of his/her's posts? So...why bring it back? Boredom?
Quote:
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...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion
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02-06-2008, 12:13 PM
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You can’t build a reputation on what you are going to do
JBGDL SAYS :We are a new school located on the US/Mexico border, and we offer an outstanding Medical Doctor program to both International and North American medical students.
THE FACTS REVEAL THAT: JBGDL is a recycled school that has failed to get of the ground after several previous attempts. All reports indicate that their Medical Doctor program is far from outstanding. JBGDL SAYS : The medical school career spans 4 academic years that can be completed in 3 calendar years. Class week will be Monday through Thursday. THE FACTS REVEAL THAT: You cant study medicine in 3 years part time JBGDL SAYS :The school will be listed in the World Directory of Medical Schools and IMED. THE FACTS REVEAL THAT The school IS NOT listed in the World Directory of Medical Schools and IMED, so its education is not valid. JBGDL SAYS : José Bernardo Gutiérrez de Lara School of Medicine would like to become a model of educational excellence in the International Medical School field. We will spare no expense, not only in the physical facilities of the campus, but also in the technological array of educational tools that will allow our students to be leaders and the best prepared medical doctors. THE FACTS REVEAL THAT JBGDL still has a long distance Dean, poor facilities and poor faculty, and a schedule and curriculum that is less than perfect, and very unlikely to result in the school becoming a model of excellence any time in the near future. Just compare the hours set out in the schedule to other bone fide schools. JBGDL SAYS JBGDL will provide an innovative, practical and top-quality education. THE FACTS REVEAL THAT JBGDL is indeed innovative. No other school is convened for four five hour days in a one room rented class room with poor facilities very few faculty members and led by a long distance Dean. The school is having difficulty attracting proper staff or students. It is noteworthy that more than a skeleton staff of two teachers is needed to teach everything in the medical program. Furthermore, a certain number of students is needed to supply enough funds to maintain adequate staffing levels, and to sustain the program. It seems that L S is not really interested in setting up a proper medical school You can’t build a reputation on what you are going to do. - Henry Ford
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02-13-2008, 01:13 AM
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COGNOSCERE VOLO (I would like to know)
COGNOSCERE VOLO (I would like to know) I am bored I am even going overboard. I have even and without apology quoted from private emails Now I will reminisce about remarks made in the first six pages of the posts on this forum (now on page 2) concerning International Medical School of the Americas –IMSA – (currently rehashed as JBGDL) I would like to ask a few questions. They are some things that I would like to know, because these things bother me. It hurts me to see med students hurt A- On August 24th 2006, the elite member dt asked Any school that asks for the whole program in advance is telling everyone that it is not sure it will be around in 4 years and wants your money now! Besides, how are you going to get your money back if you have to quit? This school is not listed in IMED. 1- IS THIS SITUATION THE SAME AT JBGDL? 2- IS JBGDL YET IMED LISTED? IF NOT WHY JBGDL OPERATING? 3- AT THE LAST ATTEMPT THE SCHOOL LASTED LESS THAN ONE YEAR. 4- HOW LONG WILL IT LAST THIS TIME? 5- IS THERE THEN MERIT IN DT’S STATEMENT ABOVE? This was DT’s advice then Dont be that desparate to go to these 2 schools. If you are concern about costs, try the Phillipines, Eastern Europe (Poland, Hungary, Czech), etc. All are better choices than this school, imho. 6- IS DT’S ADVICE STILL RELEVANT? I think so. B- On August 26th 2006, Genossa maximmillan opined, Sounds like... ...One of those Nigerian oil e-mail scams. 7- Was he correct then? Is this a correct opinion now? C On September 7th 2006 Weatherman wrote in reference to b Meeting licensing requirements I'm trying to remember some rules here so if I am wrong please let me know. Students applying for licensure are normally required, at least in some states, to prove they were out of the country during their medical training. This can mean presenting your passport to prove you were out of the country during your period of basic science training. If you attend this school and have your housing on the American side of the border, you will not be able to do this. Mexico does not require a passport until you are approximately 50 miles into the country. So you will be able to live in the USA and take classes in Mexico but there will be no passport record that you ever left the USA. What happens then when you are challenged by a state licening board? Just a thought. 8- ARE THESE CONCERNS RELEVANT PROSPECTIVE STUDENT? YOU OUGHT TO THINK ON THESE THINGS? D On January 29th 2007, Teratos, one of the geru’s of VMD noted If a school is not IMED listed, you should just forget about it immediately. Don't even post a question about it. Without IMED you cannot sit for the boards and will never get a license. It just kills me that people actually go to a school like this. A med school with 2 teachers?? Anyone with the intelligence to spell their name should have enough sense to avoid it. It really is almost laughable. It sounds like it would make a great reality TV show. 9- WHY ARE THERE STUDENTS AT JBGDL STILL WHEN THE SCHOOL CLEARLY STATES THAT IT STILL IS NOT IMED LISTED? 10- HAS THERE BEEN A CHANGE IN LICENSING POLICIES BY THE STATE BOARDS? 11- ARE THERE MORE THAN TWO TEACHERS AT JBGDL YET? 12- HAS FILMING FOR THE REALITY SHOE AT JBGDL STARTED YET? Prospective students should call there state boards for advice before enrolling in any bogus offshore medical school E- Around this time the following link was found in which a post made by one of the two nurses in the charter class of IMSA- now JBGDL, With respect to International Medical School Of America BIGDOGRN1 wrote in May 2006t at http://www.valuemd.com/main-medical-marketplace/113407-international-medical-school-america.html do follow this thread through its so funny The New School International Medical School Of America Is Scheduled To Start July 31 2006. I Urge All Students Who Are Willing To Start Then To Apply Go On The Web Site Get The Info Check It Out It Is Real ! Of Course There Is A Risk Being The First Students Of A New School But The Risks Are Worth It In My Opinon. AMERICAN Curriculum ! AMERICAN Professors! And Clinical Training In AMERICA. What Have You Got To Lose. I Read All The Comments From The Other People But How Many Of You Have Contacted The School To Get The Real Information? I AM ONE OF THE FIRST NEW STUDENTS AND I FEEL THIS IS GOING TO BE GREAT 13- Can any of these students whose dream and faith in a dreamer has led them to this dismal dump now tell us the real truth about the operations of IMSA from July 2006 to May 2007? Can they tell us the real truth about the operations of JBGDL since the rehashment in September and since? Not as exposed in the post above that when you were saying that a lot of good things were going on in Guerrero, that in effect all was NOT at all well. {e,g. Dean left. DO teacher Here’s the Deal cursing and firing Negotiate with female students for grades etc.}. 14- Can any of these students now tell prospective students the merits and benefits of being the first students of a bad new school with poor leadership? Would you like to now tell us if it has been as great as you thought? Would you like to truthfully tell us how great it has been? Can you tell prospectiv |
