New York and Carib Schools

[Zut Alors!]

Hi everyone, I have a couple of questions regarding Caribbean med schools and becoming a doctor in New York. If this has been done to death, forgive me and just direct me to the thread, because I couldn't find one directly answering these questions. Thanks in advance.

OK, so I think my understanding of medical education may be a bit cloudy at best. It seems a good amount of Caribbean med schools let you do the first couple of years (learning science) in the Caribbean, then you do the clinical stuff abroad (and if you are like me, you hope the US). So far I'm correct, right? Then you go on to do a 1 year internship (PGY-1?) and then a few years as a resident. So my questions are really as follows:

If you want to be a doctor in New York specifically, you have to go to a specifically approved med school that allows you to do over 12 weeks of clerkships in New York. The list from the website says they are:

Form 2CC is not needed for graduates of the following medical schools, which have been approved by the New York State Education Department to allow students to complete more than 12 weeks of clinical clerkships in New York State. The schools are:

• American University of Antigua, Antigua
• American University of the Caribbean, St. Martin, Netherland Antilles
• The Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Guadalajara, Mexico
• English Language Program, University of Debrecen, Medical and Health Science Center, Medical School, Debrecen, Hungary
• English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
• English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland
• Fatima College of Medicine, Manila, Philippines
• International Health and Medicine Program, Ben Gurion University of the Negrev, Beer-Sheva, Israel
• Kasturba Medical College, Manipal, India
• Medical University of the Americas/Nevis, Nevis, West Indies
• Ross University School of Medicine, Roseau, Dominica
• Saba University School of Medicine, Saba, Netherland Antilles
• St. George's University School of Medicine, St. George's, Grenada
• St. Matthew's University School of Medicine, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands

So let's say I went to one of these schools. What happens after my first couple of years on [insert island here]? Do you get picked for a certain hospital in the US and stay there for the next couple of years during clinical education? If someone could outline what happens after the basic classroom science curriculum in Caribbean schools, I'd be indebted to you! The whole legalities of doing clerkships and stuff in NY is confusing me. Thanks again in advance to everyone.

[DOCplucinski]

Originally Posted by Zut Alors!

Hi everyone, I have a couple of questions regarding Caribbean med schools and becoming a doctor in New York. If this has been done to death, forgive me and just direct me to the thread, because I couldn't find one directly answering these questions. Thanks in advance.

OK, so I think my understanding of medical education may be a bit cloudy at best. It seems a good amount of Caribbean med schools let you do the first couple of years (learning science) in the Caribbean, then you do the clinical stuff abroad (and if you are like me, you hope the US). So far I'm correct, right? Then you go on to do a 1 year internship (PGY-1?) and then a few years as a resident. So my questions are really as follows:

If you want to be a doctor in New York specifically, you have to go to a specifically approved med school that allows you to do over 12 weeks of clerkships in New York. The list from the website says they are:

Form 2CC is not needed for graduates of the following medical schools, which have been approved by the New York State Education Department to allow students to complete more than 12 weeks of clinical clerkships in New York State. The schools are:

• American University of Antigua, Antigua
• American University of the Caribbean, St. Martin, Netherland Antilles
• The Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Guadalajara, Mexico
• English Language Program, University of Debrecen, Medical and Health Science Center, Medical School, Debrecen, Hungary
• English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
• English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland
• Fatima College of Medicine, Manila, Philippines
• International Health and Medicine Program, Ben Gurion University of the Negrev, Beer-Sheva, Israel
• Kasturba Medical College, Manipal, India
• Medical University of the Americas/Nevis, Nevis, West Indies
• Ross University School of Medicine, Roseau, Dominica
• Saba University School of Medicine, Saba, Netherland Antilles
• St. George's University School of Medicine, St. George's, Grenada
• St. Matthew's University School of Medicine, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands

So let's say I went to one of these schools. What happens after my first couple of years on [insert island here]? Do you get picked for a certain hospital in the US and stay there for the next couple of years during clinical education? If someone could outline what happens after the basic classroom science curriculum in Caribbean schools, I'd be indebted to you! The whole legalities of doing clerkships and stuff in NY is confusing me. Thanks again in advance to everyone.

You complete your Basic Sciences at one of the schools listed. Starting in your 6th semester (usually) you begin rotations mostly through your schools affiliated hospitals. You can do rotations outside of this, which many students do, which must be approved by the hospital and school to do this. Getting back on track, let me use AUA as an example since I'm going there in May. They have many of their rotations in New York, some offering only specific rotations. You can rotate through the hospitals for the duration of the rotation, 12 or 6 weeks depending on the rotation. Most of these rotations are known as "green book" rotations. Many states are tough and require all the rotations done by "green book" to be liscensed, others aren't so tough. Finish your rotations, take your step 2, graduate and enter the match!

I hope this helps to answer your question.

[Zut Alors!]

Yes, that definitely helped to clarify things a bit more. I'd like to delve a bit deeper, using your example as stated. I'll use Hospital X & Y as being affiliated hospitals.

So after your 5th semester, let's say you get placed at Hospital X in Queens. After 12 weeks there, let's say Internal Medicine, you have to leave to do your 12 weeks of surgery at Hospital Y in Brooklyn. After your 12 weeks there, you go do your 6 weeks of whatever specialty at Hospital Z in the Bronx.

Is that what the scenario would look like? Is this radically different than what a US graduate would go through? Just curious what varying curricula look like.

Once again, thanks DOCplucinski.

[Zut Alors!]

Oh, and one more thing, what do they mean by "green book"? How does this vary from other ways of getting rotations done?

[DOCplucinski]

Originally Posted by Zut Alors!

Oh, and one more thing, what do they mean by "green book"? How does this vary from other ways of getting rotations done?

It can get a little tricky at times. Ok, let me explain what "green book" is before I answer the first part of your question. There are two types of rotations, MD (green book) and DO (sometimes called blue book). There is an agency called ACGME which is approves hospitals to provide an MD residency there in a specific specialty, lets say Internal Med. Lets say hospital XY is accredited by the ACGME for Internal Med residency, then the clinical rotation there is known as "green book". Similary, there is the same thing for DO's which is where "blue book" comes in.

So as I was saying before, some states are tough on this for MD liscensing, some are not. Now, back to the first part of your question. There are some hospitals that have all the clinicals and electives "green book". Here's an example for AUA, as I understand it, Jackson Park Hospital in IL as well as the Emory Hospital in Atlanta offer all cores and electives as "green book" . If you desire, you can do all of your rotations there. The advantage to this is that if you REALLY want to do your residency there and you know they'll offer you a pre-match, then why not. Some rotations are better than others, that is why its good to move around a little, see other hospitals and get your name out there. It can be tricky sometimes, especially if you want to do all "green books". For me, I'm not taking any chances, although many states really aren't tough on this, and I'm going to schedule all of my "green book"

Here's a site that you can search for ACGME-accredited hospitals and their programs if you want more info on it: ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access

The best way to see if the state is tough is to call their medical liscensing board and find out their requirements. Have a good one.

[Zut Alors!]

Thanks again!

I stumbled across this thread here at valuemd.com. http://www.valuemd.com/saba-universi...clinicals.html This example would be using SABA.

So all the hospitals in that thread are the SABA-affiliated ones. Clinical education at SABA's website lists rotations in: IM, Surgery, OBGYN, Psych, & Peds. One hospital they are affiliated with, Brookdale Hospital, is ACGME approved for "core rotations" in all of those. Does that mean it's green book? Confusing!

[DOCplucinski]

Originally Posted by Zut Alors!

Thanks again!

I stumbled across this thread here at valuemd.com. http://www.valuemd.com/saba-universi...clinicals.html This example would be using SABA.

So all the hospitals in that thread are the SABA-affiliated ones. Clinical education at SABA's website lists rotations in: IM, Surgery, OBGYN, Psych, & Peds. One hospital they are affiliated with, Brookdale Hospital, is ACGME approved for "core rotations" in all of those. Does that mean it's green book? Confusing!

It is confusing, when I was first researching, I thought the ACGME approves the rotations, but they actually approve the residencies. Thus, this makes the rotation that has the approved residency "green book". So a hospital can have many approved residencies, lets say Peds, IM, and Family Medicine, but not psychiatry. This means that all of those ACGME residencies have "green book" rotations for those, but the psychiatry one is not "green book". Get it?

[Zut Alors!]

Yup, I think so; pretty much if the residency is not ACGME approved, then the rotation is not green book. So essentially the example I used, Brookdale, which is SABA affiliated and has IM/OBGYN/Surgery/Peds/Psych all listed as approved residencies, is therefore greenbook for all of those rotations. That's what I have gotten from all of this.

Once again, thank you very much, and good luck when you start school! BTW, what state are you hoping to practice in?

[DOCplucinski]

Originally Posted by Zut Alors!

Yup, I think so; pretty much if the residency is not ACGME approved, then the rotation is not green book. So essentially the example I used, Brookdale, which is SABA affiliated and has IM/OBGYN/Surgery/Peds/Psych all listed as approved residencies, is therefore greenbook for all of those rotations. That's what I have gotten from all of this.

Once again, thank you very much, and good luck when you start school! BTW, what state are you hoping to practice in?

Yeup, you got it. Well thats an interesting question because I'm not really sure. I'm from NY, I live here right now. I was born in Pittsburgh and most of my family is from PA. A lot of my friends have moved down to NC. My girlfriend and her family are from Seatle. So as you can see, those are many different states with different options. Given how my gf is, if we're still together through and after med school, I'll be moving down to WA. UW has a great Sports Medicine residency that I would love to get into. Pretty much, I'm going to apply to every surgery residency available in all of those states as well as the surrounding states on the West Coast except Cali. I guess we'll see what happens!