Stop the Nonsense

[Miklos]

Originally Posted by teratos

It doesn't. If you go to spartan and become board certified in the field of your choice, you still CANNOT ever practice in CA (except in the VA system). You are not fully licensed out of med school, and most states will not license IMG's until 2 or even 3 years of residency. I have a difficult time believeing that you have been licensed for over 30 years. Of course, the anonymity of the internet allows people to say whatever they want. So, Signing off from the International Space station......(Oh, wait, I don't post anon!)

[jpryor]

I post using my name, obviously. You indicate your location as Baltimore and cite Osler, so I'll assume you are connected with Johns Hopkins. So was I and I'll tell you how to prove it. But first, allow me this correction: I have stated, quite clearly, in previous posts that I am a Physician Assistant and have been since 1972. There's a PA who is the Adm Dir of the ER at Hopkins (or at least he was the last time we talked a couple of years ago) who use to work with me. His name is Jim S. There's a nurse in the ACTU named Ilene who also worked with me (she sends me e-mail daily, so I know she's still there). Contact the Burn Center at Key and I'm certain you'll find people who remember me, even though I left there in '86. If Dr. Hoops is still the Plastics Attending, mention my name, his letter of recommendation got me an excellent job after I left Hopkins. How do you like me now? Do we still need to dance? Now, back to the issue of BC and California...their phone number is published on their web site, so I'll verify with them today. I'm East Coast, so it's going to be a few hours, but I'll be happy to post what I'm told. Just so we're clear, I have no argument with the statements that CA will not license you if you are from certain schools, as long as the topic is initial licensure. If I'm wrong about Board Certification, I have no problems admitting it, but I do not think I am. And, for the tangential argument of distinguishing between licensing and certification and the people who practice without being Boarded--very true, but that wasn't the thrust of the discussion.

[microphage]

If we stopped the bickering, where would we have all the fun?

[50ishdoc]

State liscensure and board certification are two seperate things. Board certification means that you have specialty training, and have passed the test. It is not uncommon for a hospital to require board certification in order to get staff priviledges at that hospital, but one can be liscensed without board certification, and many people are.
Each individual state is responisible for liscensing professionals in their state. Some states are more difficult to get liscensed in than others. California, New York, and Kansas are frequently sticky, probably some others as well that I don't know about. As has been said time and time again, if one is only interested in practicing in one particular state, one should make absolutely sure that their school is acceptable to that state.

[teratos]

I have a short attention span, and am not affiliated with JHH. I missed the part about the PA. Now it makes sense. There are various and sundry rules on licensure that don't make sense. Some people think when you bring up the picky rules in relation to their schools and potential licensure that you are attacking them. IMGs get hit hard. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I aoplogize. Sometimes I think I really do sign out from the ISS.

Now, if you talk with Pat Park, who works for the CA state licensing board, she will tell you that all the board certifications on the planet will not help you if your school is not approved. Every application in each state is "initial licensure" in that state. You do not "transfer" your license. Please, e-mail her. She has posted all over the board. I have followed these boards for many years, and have never heard her say otherwise.

G

[Picard]

Funny how a PA suddenly become an authority for medical licensure for MD's... So, have you spoken with California board?

Again, we're also waiting for you to tell us WHICH STATE issues MEDICAL LICENSES (not talking about resident registrations, or whatever it's called) to ANYONE fresh out of medical school without post-graduate training.

Again, please also show us WHICH STATE will issue you a medical license based on "board certification" alone... Tell me which state I can just send my board certification (and nothing else, no medical school diploma, no medical school transcripts... etc) and get a license, I'll go and apply just for the heck of it.

One of our graduate, a BOARD CERTIFIED pediatrician, was UNABLE to obtain a TX licensure because they did not do any Neurology rotation during medical school. Had to do remedial work in neurology before they issued her a license. If you read the licensing laws carefully, every "licensure by endorsement" with board certification also states the applicant to fulfill "all other requirements."

Plus, you can sit for board certification exams without a medical license. When I applied for my internal medicine board exam, it did NOT ask me if I was a licensed physician. In many states, residents can COMPLETE their entire residency WITHOUT obtaining a medical license in that state, and for IMG's, many state will NOT license you until you complete 3 years of residency. So, for example, in a state where IMG's cannot be licensed until finishing 3 years of residency, he or she will finish IM or FP residency without obtaining a medical license, and since IM/FP board exams take place a month or two after residency, these IMG"s are taking the internal medicine board/FP boards WITHOUT A MEDICAL LICENSE. So, you CAN BE BOARD CERTIFIED without being a licensed physician.

So, as you can see, licensure and board cert are two completely different things. In the world of IMG's, one does NOT equal the other. Being a PA without formal education (you said you only had a year of college, and was grandfathered in with military experience) does NOT make you an expert in medical licensing, especially IMG's licensing. So, before shooting your mouth off, make sure your foot is not in the way first.

P

[Picard]

VSA: In the scenario you posed, if a graduate of an unrecognized or disapproved medical school submits a licensing application to the California Medical Board (perhaps because he/she is genuinely unaware of the school's ineligibility or because of a confrontational personality), staff would simply return the application and refund the fee. The Board has no authority to process an application from a non-recognized school. There are no "reciprocity" agreements with other states. It is irrelevant if the graduate does residency training in another state or obtains licensure in another state. I continually advise the public that there are no loopholes in California law, but at least weekly I receive phone calls or e-mails from California residents or California-wannabes who are somehow enrolled in unrecognized or disapproved medical schools. This is not a wise decision. With respect to your last question, at the END of the medical school review process, the Board will consider whether to grant recognition to a medical school with unlimited retroactivity. This decision is not made before a medical school applies or early in the review process. There is no guarantee that any school will be granted retroactive recognition. Let me know if you have other questions.

Pat Park, Foreign Schools Liaison, Medical Board of California

Just a quote from Ms. Park...

[jpryor]

Picard,

Yes, I have called the California Board and went through their elaborate "Push 3 if your name ends in..." and finally got the voice mail of Linda and asked for a call-back. I'll follow up, as I'm sure I'm way down on the list for call backs. But, based on your examples, I may have to concede the point. I never considered the argument's predicate was the unusual case.

[azskeptic]

Originally Posted by jpryor

Picard,

Yes, I have called the California Board and went through their elaborate "Push 3 if your name ends in..." and finally got the voice mail of Linda and asked for a call-back. I'll follow up, as I'm sure I'm way down on the list for call backs. But, based on your examples, I may have to concede the point. I never considered the argument's predicate was the unusual case.

call Pat Park at the number on her website, or e-mail PPark@medbd.ca.gov. and avoid the weird line

[teratos]

Originally Posted by jpryor

Take this to the bank...regardless of what these weenies say...if you are Board Certified, you MUST have a very Strong negative mark on your record for any state to deny your licensure. I would hazard a guess that the majority of the people posting to this forum are clueless when it comes to the actual practice of medicine. Being somewhat new to this forum I will say this...if you are BOARD CERTIFIED in your specialty you will be granted licensure, regardless of what school, color, creed, religion or sexual preference you have. It is the GOLD STANDARD that all health care practitioners seek to achieve and no medical licensing authority ignores it. To any that say otherwise...step up to the plate...prove this to be a lie and I will eat my words. I suspect that people aren't reading licensure regulations correctly. There's a fairly strong barrier to poseurs getting licensed. Becoming Board Certified in your specialty..your're good to go in any state. You can also practice in multiple states, if you choose. I've been there..done that, as have many of the actual health care providers I've known and these jokers on this forum who allege different either aren't health care professionals, are imposters or are just out in left field. But don't take my word for it. Go talk to any actual Board Certified physician and leave these children to their postings.

I'm a board certified physician (Internal Medicine). You can look me up on the ABIM website. I use my real name here. I guess I am a weenie, and a child.....
In the future, just make sure you have the facts before you insult the people who disagree with you. I'm sure you meant no ill. G