Attitudes towards IMGs in the U.S.

[Golgotha]

So far, whenever I announce that I am applying to med school in the caribbean, the person I'm talking to gets a wierd look on their face like, "are sure about this?" or "I thought you wanted to be a 'real' doctor?" etc.

I am curious what attitudes IMGs have encounted during Clinicals and/or Residency either among their US med school counterparts or from their superiors.
Do you feel that you are stigmatized for graduating from the Caribbean?
Do you feel that you are at a disadvantage?

thanks
-dp

[tRmedic21]

Stigmatized??? Yep. Every day of my life. I'm stigmatized in a lot of ways.

I'm fat, therefore, I'm lazy.
I'm white, therefore I'm rich and overpriveleged.
I'm American, therefore, I am spoiled.
I'm shaved bald, tattooed, and pierced, therefore I'm a rebel.
I'm from the South, therefore, I'm stupid.
I'm in a Caribbean med school, therefore, my GPA/MCAT sucked.
I'm a paramedic, therefore I'm an adrenaline junkie who wants to work in ER.


Stop and think about how many stigmas or generalizations you are subject to every day. Or the ones you perpetuate, even! I prefer to judge people based on what I have observed from their behaviors. If you act like I jerk, then I'll assume you're a jerk, and treat you accordingly, meaning I hope you don't spontaneously combust, because I will suddenly develop a spastic urethral stricture that will prohibit me from attempting to save you through application of any liquid at hand.

Anyone who wants to judge me for going to a Carib school as being a substandard physician (when I finally get there!) can take a flying leap. If they really want to make a big deal out of it, I've got a size 11 boot to implant squarely in their rectum at high speed.

Bottom line is, if you think non-US-trained physicians are automatically inferior, then you're the one who is ignorant and I don't need to deal with you. My patients are going to love me, not because of my credentials, but because of my skills. My peers are going to respect me for the same reason. Anyone who doesn't want to, doesn't have to. I'm not going to beg and plead, but they're going to feel like idiots when I can practice circles around them.

There are thousands upon thousands of FMGs in the US practicing medicine in every state, in every specialty, in every way imaginable. If you are so insecure that you think it is going to bother you so much that it will make practicing medicine hell, then don't even start. Find something else, where people will just love you endlessly, like selling puppies, or snow cones, or cotton candy, or whatever. Medicine is not for the weak of stomach or the faint of heart. Period.

[FLK]

Originally Posted by Golgotha

So far, whenever I announce that I am applying to med school in the caribbean, the person I'm talking to gets a wierd look on their face like, "are sure about this?" or "I thought you wanted to be a 'real' doctor?" etc.

I am curious what attitudes IMGs have encounted during Clinicals and/or Residency either among their US med school counterparts or from their superiors.
Do you feel that you are stigmatized for graduating from the Caribbean?
Do you feel that you are at a disadvantage?

thanks
-dp

I got the same laughter, people scoffing at my decision ( back in the early 90's when it was a bigger risk than now even )
So today what are the people doing that told me I was crazy??
Hairdresser
Working at a Hotel desk
Pointy headed academic goon still teaching college bio
One guy that told me he would never lower himself to go be a foreign graduate, now sells insurance. WHOOPEEEEE!!!!

When I got to school, I was very happy to see that a lot of my fellow classmates were DOCTOR'S KIDS
That was all the endorsement that I needed. 8)


as a Caribbean graduate, you will always run the risk of running into somebody that will prejudge you but in my entire career this has happened only a few times. If you are a good doctor, people take a different perspective. they see you as even better because you got where you are despite your school of choice. In fact, when I was at a fellowship interview at University of Michigan, one of the interviewers kept looking at my stats ( none of whicn contain college stats) and asking, why I wasn't admitted to a US school. He was befuddled. I took it as a complement.
...and later turned down their offer for a spot

also, when you are out of school and doing residency, fellowship, practice etc, you earn respect as everybody else does. You cannot rest on your laurels.
Day one of resuidency it's all about "OK, how good are you. show what you can do, etc."

You earn respect from the attendings, nurses, and patients, none of whom really know or care where you trained. I would say 99% of the residents I trained during my fellowship didn't know I was a Caribbean grad. I just doesn't come up in routine conversation ( just like I had no idea where my residents went to medical school )

I have always been straightforward is saying that I was a lousy college student. I partied. I traveled. I worked a lot of jobs. I didn't deserve a spot in A US school. BUT I go on to say, that I worked hard in med school, beat most people on my USMLE's, and did well in residency and fellowship, etc, and that is ultimately what matters.

I would certainly rather be a US graduate, BUT I would rather be where I am now (which is a practicing MD---licensed fully and with all the priviliges in my state as a Harvard Grad ) than a chirporactor, or a hairdresser or some doctor wanna-be that never went off-shore.

if this is your only option ( there are places besides the caribbean too Australia, Israel, Ireland, Puerto Rico ETC .....check them out ) then go for it.

I have found that success is the best revenge against "nay-sayers"

now I get no grief from healthcare professionals. Funny , the same old standards still apply as they did when I was applying. Probably the only people that would accuse me of notbeing a real doc are the hairdressers, and used car salesmen.....but what the Hell do they know? ( then these same people go on to show me the cyst on their wrist and want free medical advice ) HA!

[stephew]

Originally Posted by Golgotha

So far, whenever I announce that I am applying to med school in the caribbean, the person I'm talking to gets a wierd look on their face like, "are sure about this?" or "I thought you wanted to be a 'real' doctor?" etc.

I am curious what attitudes IMGs have encounted during Clinicals and/or Residency either among their US med school counterparts or from their superiors.
Do you feel that you are stigmatized for graduating from the Caribbean?
Do you feel that you are at a disadvantage?

thanks
-dp

Ranting about this question is silly because its a legit question. THe short answer is that you wont have the same options as a US grad, and by the way a us grad from NY medical college doesnt have the same range of opportunities as a Johns Hopkins grad. Having said that once you are in residency no one cares about where you went; its too serious a job to be that petty at that point and all they care about is how good you are. Go to a decent school and graduate and the rest is really dependant upon your abilities and training. As for me, Im teaching Hopkins students now so in part, the "best of the best" are getting training by an IMG.
Steph

[Golgotha]

All of your comments confirmed what I already suspected. Thank you for writing about your thoughts on the subject. I simply wanted to address this subject because if I'm thinking it, other potential students are probably thnking it as well.

I would like to add that I have a burning desire to be a physician. I am going med school or bust. If my crap GPA means a Caribbean school, two years on a tropical island is the price I have to pay.
Also, I agree with your assessment of nay-sayers. We'll see in four years who made the better life choices.

cheers,
-dp

[heart1st]

I was having a discussion with someone yesterday (who I just bought a boatload of MCAT material from) about attending Carib schools. I told him about you.

It used to be that older students (I don't know whether this is still true, since there are so many "non trads" that they aren't so "non trad" any more) rarely got accepted the first time they applied. It seemed like the schools wanted to see if you were really serious by making you go thru the pita procedure known as applying to med school at least twice. Well, guess what? I don't have time to go thru med school applications for two years.

heart

[Golgotha]

Originally Posted by heart1st

I was having a discussion with someone yesterday (who I just bought a boatload of MCAT material from) about attending Carib schools. I told him about you.

It used to be that older students (I don't know whether this is still true, since there are so many "non trads" that they aren't so "non trad" any more) rarely got accepted the first time they applied. It seemed like the schools wanted to see if you were really serious by making you go thru the pita procedure known as applying to med school at least twice. Well, guess what? I don't have time to go thru med school applications for two years.

heart

Wrong thread perhaps?

-dp

[teratos]

i had some raised eyebrows from people before I left for school. Not many people had heard of Caribbean schools, and those that had often did so because of the post cards on the walls at undergrad. Whe I started clinicals, I rotated with US students. I expected some comments from them, but never got any. I never had any problem with anyone during my residency. The only comment that I got was from an old guy who was volunteering who said something about my not going to a "real medical school". I was chief resident at that time...I just laughed and told him that was right, and all i could prescribe were placebos. He didn't get it. I got a job with no problem. It is rare that people ask. When they do they say "that must have been fun". I get plenty of referrals from the attendings I did residency under. When the cardiologists have patients that need an internist, they give me a call. I think that is the sincerest form of flattery. Don't worry about what other people think. There isn't much discrimination in the real world. G