Russia Vs Eastern Europe

[sanjuro]

I'm a British resident who is hoping to work in the USA as a radiologist one of these days. Lately, I have been thinking about studying at St Petersburg Medical Academy in Russia, partly because it is cheaper than the UK, but mostly because I really would love to immerse myself in a completely alien culture and learn a new language as well. The experience will be rewarding, I'm sure.

Russia is exceptionally cheap place to live, a six medical degree can cost from as little $14,000, any other country would charge at least double that figure; but how does the standard of education compare with other European medical schools, such as Poznan or the Charles University?
Is it cheap for a reason? Do the top Russian medical schools teach you enough information to successfully take the USMLE? What are the medicalfacilities like and are they up to teaching standards? Is there a list which ranks all the best medical schools in the world?

Any info would be much appreciated.

[dt]

I would suggest that you consider the Eastern European schools over the Russian schools for the simple reason that you are a British resident. Is it not true that a degree from one of the Eastern European schools which is part of the EU would be recognized as equivalent anywhere in Europe? Whereas a degree from Russia is not as useful?

[sanjuro]

It is true that Russia is not part of the EU, but remember, I do want
to work in America afterwards. Do American hospitals favour a EU qualification over a Russian one?

[azskeptic]

EU physicians receive better training,due to the laws. Russian medical schools are in no way the quality of even E. Europe schools due to the financial restraints,etc.

[pisklaki]

I think that the program in Russia, Poland, Czech, Bulgaria do not differ at all and prepare you the same way (6 year program).
They were all under the same system so nothing changed. You are still learning the same things as anywhere else

[azskeptic]

Due to the economic situations, they lack basic medications and even surgical supplies in many of the Russian hospitals. Resultingly your training is going to be a bit lacking....level of education itself may be similiar but intrastructure 'sucks'. Best advice to give someone from the US who is ill in Russia is to get get to Czech or other E. Europe location where they aren't suffering economically.

[neilc]

yeah, i have to agree....we have several russians here, even they don't want to train in russia. while it still is not the US here, i am cosistently amazed at the progress over the last 3 years. the hospital does have some dumpy sections and wards, but they also have some top-notch divisions, and the equipment, drugs, therapies, etc...are all up to date.

russia is still a very corrupt place, and will likely continue to be. my russian classmates hate to go home. remember, when cost means nothing in the absence of value. there is a reason for things to be very cheap...

good luck

[peacefuljourney]

There is a huge difference between Russia and 'Eastern Europe' - the latter is soon to be in the European Union. When we graduate we have free roam of Europe - access to some great facilities in Switzerland, Germany etc. Never mind the details but for a one-liner: Where did you go to medical school? Europe. or Russia. What do you think sounds better?

Likely some good scientists in Russia, solid basic sciences, but lack of teaching equipment, facilities, methodologies. Of particular concenr when thinking of modern medical equipment. I'm worried that even coming from here that we will be like deers blinking in the headlights of technology - no palms with drug interactions happening at bedside here. Corruption rules in Russia. period. It is still corrupt where we are, but it is coming - slowly. If I had to choose I would choose St. Petersburg. It is supposed to be the most beautiful city on the planet - needs a coat of paint, but these comments come from very well travelled folks.

Lastly, I'm a firm believer in making your education work for you. Whereever you go, if you have the self-motivation to learn, you can overcome almost anything. S-

[Miklos]

Originally Posted by pisklaki

I think that the program in Russia, Poland, Czech, Bulgaria do not differ at all and prepare you the same way (6 year program).
They were all under the same system so nothing changed. You are still learning the same things as anywhere else

I beg to differ. Anyone who has spent a bit of time travelling in the region knows that there are differences. This is especially evident with Russia and Bulgaria. If you do not believe me, check the GDP/person figures for the countries in question. Generally speaking, the further east you go, the more impoverished the place is. With regard to corruption, see my post on the Romania thread.

[drvinnitsa]

dear friend!with the respect to all other opinions,and not because i'm an eastern european graduate.i will start with St.Petersburg,which you asked.If the name of one of the first Nobel Prize winner Pavlov tells you smthing-its the starting point.now another fact which i will combine with my opinion-allmost for 300 years St.Petersburg was the center of military medecine,surgery,and so on.Mechnikov studied there.The behavioral science-which is big part on step 1 is based on Bechterevs works(Webster Medical)and allmost all prominent german,british ,italian and french medicine "gods""trained,teached,worked there.after the communists took power-well-medicine become better for long time.now,we come to WW2-which was a major turning point!germany lost its scientific advantage because lots of peole fleet from nazis.thats from where US got its scientific power.another thing while the russians went to space and went far ahead in military,western world was developing new technologyt(in 1945-Soviets take a lot of military technics documentation,but Americans took medical research data,plans,economics,and all that kind of stuff).But-Soviet got the unique and big population of fantastically clinically trained and experienced doctors(not doctors-iathors-it is the real world for clinician-doctor just a degree)and now we coming to the major point where you have to make YOUR own decision:
if you want to become good practitioner no doubts-either Russia or Ukraine.allmost the same.Romania and Bulgaria are very good too.
besides that other pluses-local people are very nice-just never lie to them).food mostly 10000..%natural and self made.and extremely delicious(black caviar is enough for you?20-30 times chipper than everywere.patients especially middle aged and elderly-are extremely nice and outgoing.by the third year i was able to perform allmost allbasic surgical procedures,physical dyagnosis-i don't even mention.by the 5th year you'll be able to stay night shift with no supervision!-main point overthere everything will depend on you,and your personality.in my class i had allmaost all students from India,Saudis,UAE,Jordan,Peru,1 british,1 greekand couple spanish.big range.good social life
(but if you are not irish or scottish never compete with them in drinking or fighting contest).a lot of foreign student making an arrangement with clinical professors-and get on-on one training with patients all surgeries.and very little price-and even presents are better-because most of local people are very pride,especialyy intelligency(doctors,teachers),because Russia is probably only place in the world were high society doesn't usually include reach people and politicians.usually it is intelligence-docs,not lawers),teachers,artist,etc.
i have lots more things to say.main idea was to give you some honest opinion of mein,and my personal experience.not what the people said(remarque to neilc)how the corruption interfeer with medical education-have no idea.honestly.when i was working there-out of 150-160 students allmost everyone been paying different tuition-but everyone were treated equally.try here in private schools!about usmle-wellstep 2 and 3 you will be doing great!(depends on your,of course).step 1 -Anatomy,if you studying good during 1,5 years in classes,and histo,stats,perfect.physio same.even(and especially)old books much better than allmost all foreign.you don't need to have tonns of booksfor everYTHING
AND NO ONE IS HONEST)-NOWADAYS EVERYONE COMING HERE TO US TO PRACTICE BECAUSE THE DOCTORS TREATED BEST HERE.HONESTLY!ITS TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLE-CAUSE ONLY US GUARANTIES YOU DEC ENT LIVING JUST FOR YOUR DEGREE AND LICENSE.AND VERY UNFORTUNATELLY,THE BIG FINANCIAL SUCCESS COMING MOSTLY TO PEOPLE WITH DEGREES NOT TO DEVOTED DOCTORS.VERY UNFORTUNATELLY(AND LOTS OF DOCTORS AFRAID TO DO THE THINGS BECAUSE OF LAWERS.I HAVE A PRIVILEDGE TO WORK WITH PROBABLY ONE OF THE OLDEST PRACTICING MD HERE.LIKE DIFFERENT PLANET.PEOPLE BEFORE HERE BEEN TRAINED BY THE SAME SYSTEM AS IN EUROPE-TO TTHINK.AND NOW JUST TO PASS.PLUS-SOUL EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.
ANOTHER THING-ABOUT THE BOOKS-WHEN I WAS STUDYING-IT WAS NOT THAT POPULAR,BUT PEOPLE WHO USED HARRISON USUALLY FAILED FROM FIRST ATTEMPTS.NOW-I'M SOMITEMES SENDING USMLE BOOKS TO MY FRIENDS WHO ARE PREPARING TO TAKE STEPS-THEIR ONLY HOPE THAT THE PROFESSOR OR HIS KIDS ARE PREPARING THEMSELVES)
ABOUT MEDICATIONS-WELL-YOU MAKE ME LAUGH!I WAS BRINGING LOTS OF STUFF,GIVING TO PEOPLE,GERMAN AND SWISS MUCH BETTER,AND IN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE LOTS OF FARMCOMPANIES-THE AFFORDABILITY IS ANOTHER STORY(BUT THEY DON'T HAVE MEXICO CLOSE))MACHINES-SAME AS HERE-IN STATE SCHOOLS EVEN NEWER AND PROBABLY BETTER-MOSTLY GERMAN,JAPANISE,DUTCH,SWEDISH-DON'T FORGET-LOTS OF PEOPLE LAUNDERING MONEY)PLUS WESTERN WORLD GIVING A LOT FOR NUCLEAR AND OTHER WEAPONS.I REALLY WISH THEM ALL THE BEST.
SO ANYWAYS-NO MORE ** FROM ME-BRAKE IS FINISHING)I HOPE I DIDN'T OFFEND ANYONE ,ESPECIALLY SINCE:1-I JUST GAVE MY EXPERIONCE FROM MY MISTAKES AND GAINS.Errare humanum est 2-
I WOULDN'T DISCUSS CHECH,HUNGARY OR POLAND-SINCE I NEVER BEEN THEIR AND PLUS AS A JEW-I HAD SOME FAMILY IN THOSE COUNTRIES-AND THEY BEEN KILLED EVEN BEFORE NAZIS CAME!AND CORRUPTED,POOR EASTERN DRUNKEN RUSSIANS SAVE MY GRANDMOTHERS AND GAVE MY GRANDFATHERS GOOD WEAPONS AND LET THEM BE A SOLDIERS EQUALLY WITH OTHERS.AND AS ALLWAYS SAVED THE WORLD!
MY SUGGESTION(AFTER AAAAL I WENT THROUGH SUCCEED AND SUFFER)-IF YOUR FINAL DESTINATION IS PRACTICE IN US-MY FIRST CHOICE WOULD BE(IN ANOTHER LIFE IF ANY(ANY US MEDSCHOOL!!!!!PERIOD.!!!!!!!!!!ALL MY FORMER CLASSMATES WHO LEFT RIGHT AFTER THE IRON CURTAIN FELT,HAVEN'T FINISHED-THEY WENT ALL OVER HERE NOT IN ANY PRESTIGIOUS SCHOOLS-AND ALL GOT REALLY GREAT RESIDENCIES OF THEIR CHOICES.HONESTLY-NOT JEALOUS-THEY ALL GOOD STUDENTS.IN BASIC SCIENCES..SOME WHO PASSED AS FMG-GOT SIMPLER AND NOT THAT GOOD PLACES-2 OF THEM UNBELEIVABLE PEOPLE,DIAGNOSTICIANS,SCHOLARS)
SECOND CHOICE WOULD BE OSTEOPATHIC.ANY.!!!SINCE IT I BELEIVE SAME
THIRD-CARRIBEANS,OR WHATEVER WITH ROTATIONS IN US

BUT ITS ALL BIG MONEY QUESTIONS.DEPENDS ON EACH PARTICULAR PERSON.I WOULD GOT INTO ANY DEBTS JUST TO SAVE MY NERVES)

FROM ALL OTHER-IF YOU HAVE POSSIBILITY JUST TAKE TRIPS TRY TO LIVE A BIT.SEE THE SCHOOLS.I HEARD IN POLAND SOME ENGLISH FACULTIES.IN MY SCHOOL YOU'LL STUDY UKRAINIAN FOR A YEAR,FOR VERY CHEAP,AND YOU'LL HAVE GOOD TIME!YOU CAN TRAVELL ALL OVER THE EUROPE
TALK TO YOUR FAMILY ,CALL TO SCHOOLS,VISIT THEIR SITES-.
HOPE IT HELPED

SORYY GUYS,FOR TIME TAKING.HAVENT TALK TO ANYONE ABOUT MOTHERLAND FOR LONG TIME)
GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE!