Transferring medical schools

[Sandor]

Hi All,

Would appreciate some words of wisdom from any and all informed persons out there. Allow me to give some background info.

I am a dual citizen (USA/HUN) --- I just got accepted to the English language medical program here in Budapest at Semmelweis.

My goal is to practice medicine in the States and I would like to get there as quickly and efficiently as possible.

What are the possibilities with regard to transferring from Semmelweis after one year to another med school in:

the States?
the UK and/or Ireland?
the Carib. (Big 3)?
Australia?

A couple reasons for this. (Please feel free to illuminate me should my reasoning be wrong.)

1) Semmelweis is a 6 year program. If I can transfer to a 4-year program (assume I start as a 1st year there) - I still have saved one year.

2) The Carib Schools and State school teach to the USMLE. The others, (I assume) also have better reps. than Hungary.

3) I am assuming that education/training is better in the aforementioned places than here in Hungary.

Some random questions:

Any advantage in applying to any of these schools as a US citizen as opposed as a Hun.-EU citizen or vica versa?

If I were to stay here in Hun. for the full 6 years, I am thinking about doing a MS or Ph.d in Biochem or a related field. Would that make me a stronger candidate in the future for the match? in the job market?

Looking forward to hearing...er...reading your thoughts.

Please let me know if there are any errors in my assumptions.

Thanks,

Sandor

[wild]

Sander
Hi
I am sorry that I cannot help you out .... but you are trying to find out the same thing as me. I am a second year student in debrecen with a US citizenship also wanting to transfer to a US med school for the same reasons. I was wondering if you got any info about this and that maybe you can help me out with how to start this sort of thing and links....
thanks
wild

[cristagali]

I'm at DOTE. As a US/HUN you should have a much easier time here. yes 6 years is a long time. BUT if you choose Simmelwies you can do your last year in New york called a 5th pathway program. Ask them about it. here at DOTE, the HU students can rotate through SUNY schools, in New York State also. And most of the US 6th years in the English programs do their rotations in the states, so you still get a decent clinical experience before you leave. in the long term, A medical degree form the European Union will be better for you professionally, especially if you want academic medicine, but there are 2-3 caribbean schools that have a good track record of placing students into residencies. BUt it's REALLY expensive. Come to Hungary, the women are much better looking than in the states and it's not as bad as you think. A bit old fashioned yes, but you'll get a good medical education..good luck

[neongoat]

1) Semmelweis is a 6 year program. If I can transfer to a 4-year program (assume I start as a 1st year there) - I still have saved one year.

You may be able to transfer to a 4-year program but why not do the Hungarian program (isn't it free for you?) then try to transfer into the first year.

2) The Carib Schools and State school teach to the USMLE. The others, (I assume) also have better reps. than Hungary.

From what I have read, most schools in Europe (Eastern) do not teach towards the USMLE tests. From what I have been told, if your goal is to practice in the US then a Carribean school or UAG would probably be the easiest route - the exception is that they may be be more difficult financially. Look up posts from neilc. he's at Charles and knows a lot about going back to US from a EE school.

3) I am assuming that education/training is better in the aforementioned places than here in Hungary.

I doubt that. It's not so much a question of the quality of education as to what you wish to do after you receive your degree. I have heard MANY people highly praise Charles U. in Czech R for example - I think it would be incorrect to say that all Carribean med schools have better education/training.

As far as your main question of getting to the states the quickest:

If you study this year and take the MCAT and get a decent (not even good) score then you can go to UAG ( just to use as an example since I've been there). UAG in mexico is a decent foreign medical school and has success getting their graduates back in the US. They will accept you with a decent MCAT and a little University credit. Despite what it says in their website they will accept almost anyone who pays and has taken the MCAT with reasonable results. I went there and toured the school and it's not bad. If you have more questions just post again. Hope some of this helps.

[wild]

cristagali'
hi
first' I would like to thank you for replying to my posts in this and other forums.
It seems like you have much knowledge about this tranfer topic and since you go to the same school as I do maybe you can help me out a little more than the others.

does debrecen also have the fifth pathway program?
is debrecen accredited in the US and what does it mean if it is- can students get into residency in the US after completing 6 years in dote?
what would be looked best apon:
doining the full 6 years in debrecen then going into residencey in US
Fifth pathway
doing 3 years in debrecen then transfering to a carribian med school
thank you- appreciate your advice
wild

[Miklos]

cristagali'
hi
first' I would like to thank you for replying to my posts in this and other forums.
It seems like you have much knowledge about this tranfer topic and since you go to the same school as I do maybe you can help me out a little more than the others.

does debrecen also have the fifth pathway program?
is debrecen accredited in the US and what does it mean if it is- can students get into residency in the US after completing 6 years in dote?
what would be looked best apon:
doining the full 6 years in debrecen then going into residencey in US
Fifth pathway
doing 3 years in debrecen then transfering to a carribian med school
thank you- appreciate your advice
wild

Wild,

Do you attend the Hungarian or English program at Debrecen?

1) All Hungarian medical schools are accredited as far as applying for a residency in the US. All Hungarian language program diplomas at all Hungarian medical schools are recognized in the states, provided that one meets the individual state requirements. However, only the English language diplomas of Semmelweis and Szeged are currently recognized in California and New Mexico. The English language program diplomas from Pecs and Debrecen are not, though they are in the process of applying.

2) The Fifth Pathway program is open to every US citizen, who must have: (from http://www.nymc.edu/depthome/fifth.asp )

The requirements for admission have been set by the Council on Medical Education of the American Medical Association.

-Completed an accredited American college or university, undergraduate or premedical, with work of a quality acceptable for matriculation in a U.S. medical school.
-Studied and completed all the formal requirements of the foreign medical school except internship and social service.
-Academic records acceptable to New York Medical College and its affiliated hospitals.
-Obtained a passing score on the medical examiners Step 1 board examination, currently the U.S.M.L.E. exam.

If I understand your earlier posts, you said don't have an undergrad degree. This means that you are unfortunately not eligible for the Fifth Pathway.

3) Regarding the acceptability of transferring, see my earlier post. http://www.valuemd.com/viewtopic.php?p=104424#104424

Good luck.

Miklos

[Magyarorszag69]

cristagali'
hi
first' I would like to thank you for replying to my posts in this and other forums.
It seems like you have much knowledge about this tranfer topic and since you go to the same school as I do maybe you can help me out a little more than the others.

does debrecen also have the fifth pathway program?
is debrecen accredited in the US and what does it mean if it is- can students get into residency in the US after completing 6 years in dote?
what would be looked best apon:
doining the full 6 years in debrecen then going into residencey in US
Fifth pathway
doing 3 years in debrecen then transfering to a carribian med school
thank you- appreciate your advice
wild

Wild,

Well, Debrecen does offer the 5th pathway program, (1 year of supervised clinical rotations).... currently 2 of our own are studding there. I am not sure what year you are in, and if you have friends in 5 and 6th years, but to my knowledge almost everyone got a spot in residency in the USA (I think one post-matched).

I honestly think, it is to the students advantage to stick it out at a University with a history and a reputation, instead of transferring to one of the Caribbean University, but of course that is my point of view.

If you have any questions feel free to post or PM me.

Later.

[Miklos]

Well, Debrecen does offer the 5th pathway program, (1 year of supervised clinical rotations).... currently 2 of our own are studding there. I am not sure what year you are in, and if you have friends in 5 and 6th years, but to my knowledge almost everyone got a spot in residency in the USA (I think one post-matched).

I honestly think, it is to the students advantage to stick it out at a University with a history and a reputation, instead of transferring to one of the Caribbean University, but of course that is my point of view.

If you have any questions feel free to post or PM me.

Later.

Nittin,

Technically speaking, the only school that offers the Fifth Pathway program is New York Medical College, as the program must be offered by a stateside medical school. (Other acreditted allopathic stateside medical schools could offer the program as well, but as of now choose not to.)

Debrecen (as well as all other schools whose students participate in the Fifth Pathway progam in their final/service year) thereby only permits its students to participate in their sixth (in Hu: szigorlat) year.

Regardless, the point for wild is moot, as wild does not have a US undergrad degree and thereby cannot apply for the program.

Miklos

PS Glad to hear that the Debrecen grads all matched.

[Magyarorszag69]

Miklos,

Unfortunately that is where the greater majority of individuals are mistaken..... Semmelweis or DOTE's students do not officially enter the 5th pathway program, they enter 1 year of supervised clinical training. In which case it is not necessary to have an undergraduate degree --> Out of the students from DOTE who have entered program previously offered by NYMC, 2 of them had come to DOTE straight out of highschool. I personally, have spoken to them and inquired about this..... on the website it does say that you need an undergraduate degree, but if you call them and tell them you are a medical student in Hungary in a 6 year MD program.... you do NOT need an undergraduate degree due to our degree being considered a undergrad/grad combined degree.

Hope that clarifies this issue.

[Miklos]

Miklos,

Unfortunately that is where the greater majority of individuals are mistaken..... Semmelweis or DOTE's students do not officially enter the 5th pathway program, they enter 1 year of supervised clinical training. In which case it is not necessary to have an undergraduate degree --> Out of the students from DOTE who have entered program previously offered by NYMC, 2 of them had come to DOTE straight out of highschool. I personally, have spoken to them and inquired about this..... on the website it does say that you need an undergraduate degree, but if you call them and tell them you are a medical student in Hungary in a 6 year MD program.... you do NOT need an undergraduate degree due to our degree being considered a undergrad/grad combined degree.

Hope that clarifies this issue.

Good point. I see what you are saying.

You are differentiating between the Fifth Pathway and the year of supervised clinical training. These are separate programs with clear differences.

If you enter the Fifth Pathway, you must comply with the requirements I listed above.

For the year of supervised clinical training (from the same webpage);

In addition to our Fifth Pathway Program we are now accepting applications for:

a) Students who have their M.D. degree and are interested in obtaining one year of supervised clinical training to enhance their education and obtaining residencies in the United States

b) Students who will obtain their M.D. degree after a required year of internship. This year of supervised clinical training can be substituted for a year of internship with the permission of the applicant's medical schools dean.

All students must be United States Citizens or have a green card and must begin the program within two years of completion of their medical school studies. Please call for an application.

The outcome is different as well, though.

If you enter and successfully finish the Fifth Pathway (in addition to the USMLEs), you enter the match certified as a Fifth Pathway graduate.

If you 'only' get the year of supervised clinical training, after finishing the USMLEs you enter the match after being certified by the ECFMG, just as any IMG.

So you are correct to say that someone without an undergrad degree can enter the year of supervised clinical training, but (caveat!) not the Fifth Pathway. For our purposes, we shouldn't call that a Fifth Pathway, because it confuses the issue. Let's call it the year of supervised clinical training offered by NYMC.

Regarding Semmelweis students, it is my understanding that several have gone the formal Fifth Pathway route.

Miklos