In Europe, Russia or Asia?

[shrey]

movilabetim hoveiz na csekolamat az szegorzat teletimuk oz izar olmok chemalit.

[shrey]

afsadddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd dddddds

[shrey]

Originally Posted by Back_To_School

What I was wondering about the 4 year degree was. Seeing as your internship is a compulsory part of your degree in places like Poland,CR, Croatia, Hungary etc unlike in the UK for example. Is it right to say, you are effectively doing a 4 year grad entry degree in only 3 years!!? As your last year would be your internship?

Yes that is very true. The 4 year programs in Europe have been devised after those in the States and the last year is mainly clinical rotations (In the States, internship means the first year of residency).

[/quote]If so, then I'm not surprised that places like Zagreb only accept students with previous Med school experience as it must be extremely tough. I know Poland doesn't require previous Med school experience on it's Grad entry course.

Am I missing something here? [/quote]

Are you sure about that? I thought Poland was one of the countries that checked for either MCAT scores or a bachelor degree for getting into their 4 year course. In fact, I think it's mandatory.

On another note, and completely off-topic. Has anyone been reading Dan Kameny's blog about his experiences in Prague, as it sounds too me like he really must lay-off the coffee and get more sleep as it's slowly sending him mad. He seems a very nice chap, but very disheartened with Charles and I know it's only one persons experience, but I'm really starting to get put off with the idea of studying at Charles. My girlfriend is almost finished with her PhD there and her experiences with her lecturers strangely echo his. I think the biggest problem is that they are so badly paid and therfore also disheartened.

Yes, I do know Dan Kameny and his blog (actually I've just chatted with him a couple of times online but he's in the same faculty and is in his final year). some of the things he says are quite true but may be not the whole thing. I do agree with him that the professors in this country (or for that matter in any of Central European country) are very strict and always love to adhere to their "strange made-up rules and regulations" which aren't even mentioned in the rule book. The problem with most of the Central European schools is that the departments aren't integrated so each department has it's own set of rules and regulations. The grading system is her is so subjective that it is bound to drive foreigners nuts (I still don't get the idea or how a professor can be subjective in a subject like Histology ).

But for many students, it's the culture shock (and I guess you have an advantage on that). Many American students who come here, can't really stand this country for many reasons which I won't get into. And like I said, the professors are another big problem because many of them really seem to be deriving pleasure by being hard on their students and by keeping them from passing the class, which can be very disheartening and discouraging. That being said, there are quite a few who are very very nice and are willing to help you (but none of them will actually go out of their way to see that you pass). This can be part of the culture shock for American (or British?) students because, in the States, students are spoon-fed quite a bit and the professors really help their students to an extend that they pass the class (which is one of the reasons that explains the very low attrition rates in American medical schools).

Shrey! Any chance you can set up a blog as well? Only kidding, I know you must be swamped at the moment, but a fresh perspective would be nice as I'm really starting to sway towards Zagreb. I love the idea of only studying one subject at a time as it would work well with my OCD
Being able to do electives in Germany is also a bonus.

Haha I did set up a blog and it lasted for about 2 days. I just don't have that consistency when it comes to following a routine activity (may it be for academic or leisure purposes). I can't comment much on Zagreb because I read that their English medical program was only opened recently in 2003?? and that their first english division will be passing this year??

Also do make sure that whatever is written on their site is true because sometimes some of the things mentioned only apply to the native students or foreign students who can speak the native language (I've seen that almost all these Central European universities love to paint a rosy picture on their websites, but the reality can be very harsh and hard to cope with ).

[devildoc8404]

Hey B_T_S: I really like Zagreb a lot, as well. Remember, though, that the rotations in Germany are only for a month at a time, not for a full semester... and I have not received any word as to whether or not you can go to Hamburg multiple times during clinicals. They do make this option available to MSE (English program) students, as I met and spoke with one of them when I visited. I also confirmed it with Dr. J***k, the MSE director.

I haven't been to Charles so I can't add to Shrey's comments -- but I did get the feeling that the students I met at Zagreb were happy to be there, and while the classes are challenging they did not report any chicanery on the part of the professors. That speaks well for their program, anyway.

Good luck with whatever you decide! (And decide soon, if you are looking at this Fall... getting a Croatian temporary residency permit can be a paperwork pain in the rear...)

[shrey]

I think the primary reason why the Czech, Polish and Hungarian schools have high attrition rates is because tons and tons of people apply and so they have to "weed-out" the students during the 1st three years as the seats are limited. This seems to be one of the main reasons why professors are so tough on their students....it's more like "survival of the fittest".....

On the other hand, the schools that have recently started an English medical program such as those in Slovakia, Croatia, and Bulgaria are different as they want more students so that their program can "expand". In a couple of years, they will also start having high attrition rates as they have to cope with the limited number of seats.

[Back_To_School]

Hi Shrey

I know that Poland require that you have a degree and to have taken the MCAT, but from what I read on here Zagreb will only accept students into their 4 year programme if they have had actually med school experience ie a transfer student. That being said, people are getting through the 4 year degrees in Poland so it must be possible even without having previously attending med school.

I'm not one for having to be spoon fed, but I would like to feel like the lecturers are there for me if it's clear that I'm hard working. I would hate to spiral into desperation because I just didn't get a certain topic and felt like I had no one to turn to. I suppose you take it for granted coming from the states/uk and I can really understand how such a different education system could be a major shock.

Originally Posted by shrey

I do agree with him that the professors in this country (or for that matter in any of Central European country) are very strict and always love to adhere to their "strange made-up rules and regulations" which aren't even mentioned in the rule book.

Unfortuanetly, I found that this behaviour isn't just restricted to professors in Czech, but an intergration into the Czech mentality. I've had several nightmare experiences over here with computer shops, Vodafone and my cable company where the men I have spoke too just haven't been able to say 'I don't know, but I will find out' when I've asked them a question they didn't know, but instead spew out a load of rubbish so they don't look like idiots. An example being, I had to go to 5 Vodafone shops before I found someone who knew about the GPRS internet package that I knew they offered as it was on their website. I was constantly told they didn't offer it, or it wouldn't work with my UK data card and a load of other tosh which almost sent me mad. I honestly felt like packing my bags after that.

That's a shame you didn't keep up with your blog but, consistency has never been a forte of mine either.

Yeah Dan will start his intern year soon so will not have long to go. I just hope that his experiences over here haven't put him of medicine for good and that he will be armed sufficiently to get into a good residency spot. I read that he was interested in anesthesiology and if he decides to go that route I hope he keeps up his blog as I'm also interested in anesthesiology and am keen to know how he gets on with a Czech medical education in quite a competitive field.

[Chemist_11]

Originally Posted by Back_To_School

Seeing as your internship is a compulsory part of your degree in places like Poland,CR, Croatia, Hungary etc unlike in the UK for example.

I do believe this 'internship' was previously called the PRHO year, which was undertaken upon graduation (which has subsequently been replaced by the new training framework).

[Back_To_School]

Originally Posted by devildoc8404

Hey B_T_S: I really like Zagreb a lot, as well. Remember, though, that the rotations in Germany are only for a month at a time, not for a full semester... and I have not received any word as to whether or not you can go to Hamburg multiple times during clinicals. They do make this option available to MSE (English program) students, as I met and spoke with one of them when I visited. I also confirmed it with Dr. J***k, the MSE director.

I haven't been to Charles so I can't add to Shrey's comments -- but I did get the feeling that the students I met at Zagreb were happy to be there, and while the classes are challenging they did not report any chicanery on the part of the professors. That speaks well for their program, anyway.

Good luck with whatever you decide! (And decide soon, if you are looking at this Fall... getting a Croatian temporary residency permit can be a paperwork pain in the rear...)

Hi devildoc, thanks for the info on Germany. I've been reading your posts on the Zagreb thread with great interest as it seems that students from the school are on the whole more than happy with their choice to study there. Unfortuanetly I'm 18 months away from even applying to med school as I don't start my A-level course until September and it's a two year course. I'm a mature student with a lot of things to arrange before then anyway so i'm sure the time will fly by.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on over there both with the school and with Croatia itself. I know the surroundings shouldn't be as important as the school, but 6 years is a long time, and I need to know that I wouldn't go mad because of the cultural differences. For that same reason Poland and Hungary are not an option I'm prepared to consider. If I can get into a UK school then great, if not then I'm only really going to be looking at Prague, Bratislava or Zagreb. At the moment the tuition fees for Czech and Slovakia seem a bit too much as I will have to privately fund myself being British with no student loans available to myself. Also I can only see Charles raising there tuition year in year out which would be a bit worrying on top of living costs in Prague.

I'm going to take a vacation to Croatia this October to have a look around and see what the school and people are like as I've never been before. Do you know if you still need a Visa if you're from the EU?

[devildoc8404]

Yeah, I believe a European citizen would still need a visa -- Croatia is not yet a member of the EU.

For my part, I am still (technically) deciding between Zagreb and one other school for this Fall... but if I had to choose based solely on a place to live, Croatia would be mighty high on the list! And I think I would prefer the program there, too, in some ways. The main issues for me are 1) CA-approval in the States, 2) EU membership (probably forthcoming), and 3) transfer credit from my medical school work in the US. Oh... and cost, of course.

Also, I suppose time will tell if Croatia assumes the same "accept everyone with a pulse and cull the weaklings" mindset that plagues other E-Eu medical education systems. One would sincerely hope not, but who knows? FWIW, I don't think they plan to do away with their curriculum of one (or two) classes at a time, which seems quite student-oriented. Additionally, I really couldn't see the director of the MSE program acting like that toward students. By all accounts, and from my own experience, Dr. J***k is a first-rate gentleman and a fine professor.

Finally, let's just call a spade a spade, here: the "4-year Program" at UZMS doesn't exist. It's more of a "Transfer In From Another 6-year Program For The Last Four Years" Program, which would appeal to an extremely tiny subset of applicants.

[Cox's Bazar]

Originally Posted by Chemist_11

I do believe this 'internship' was previously called the PRHO year, which was undertaken upon graduation (which has subsequently been replaced by the new training framework).

I think u r in ksmu. So hi, an u help me out by saying about your eperience there? Whats the cost per year and can u nae a few books u used in your 1st MD? A buddy said they use this book or Peeves for anatomy Really?

Thanks bye