online program...
Let me tell you, it sucked the day I enter IUHS and it continues to suck. The online students are required to come on campus for one month for some reason I don’t know. And the sad part if they are so disappointed with their education when they look at our education on campus. Most on line students are working in the medical field and they are telling us that they can not do it online. They feel alone and get no directions most of the time. I was an on campus student but in my opinion the online program is worse than the on campus and that is BAD.
If you are looking into iuhs the questions to ask are:
How many students ON CAMPUS?
How many teachers full time teachers ON CAMPUS?
How long are classes?
How many students were part of the incoming class last year and how many are still there?
The on campus program is lacking so what you know the online is not going to be any better.. Look into the school before you make a decision.
I dont know how long the school will last. Dont believe anything they say. Look in to everything they tell you. Good luck...

lord no. whoever told you that is a living example of a little learning is a dangerous thing. For medicine, there is no little learning you can get away with.

Hi,
Can you provide me with the names of the programs that are considered to be online and which residency programs matched their graduates.

thanks,

larry

Online learning is not something new, by the year 2007, most medical schools in the world will offer online learning as part as the curriculum. However, online learning should be part of the medical school program, not entirely it !
Most state boards and hospitals do not really care if your curriculum encompass medical online learning, if you do an online search you will soon find that most IV schools have online learning component as well..

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One cannot do an entire medical program online. We're talking basic science here people. That's not the entire medical education.

One can argue that one cannot learn basic science online. However, this is just what people think. There are plenty of medical school that are starting to use online programs and PBL to revolutionize medical education. Many school have done away with cadaver use and turned to online and cross sectional anatomy. At some school attendence to lectures are not mandatory and students can download lecture notes online or through powerpoint. How do I know? Students from SDN have said so. And, Harvard University and McMaster in Canada are doing it now.

What will determine if one can learn basic science online is the USMLE. I know people who has passed their USMLE step 1 after finishing Basic science online. I know students from my school who have passed USMLE step 2. And, I know students who are in Residency now from my school. Until I start to see people who have done online programs fail the USMLE, then I'll say that one can't learn basic science online. Until then, what people say is just what they think. That's ok. We are all allowed to think and feel as we may.

However, please stop saying that one can do their entire medical education online because one can't. If one does, then it is not a true medical school because most countries that I know about require you do some form of clinical experience which one cannot do online.

For those that say you can't do basic science online, prove me wrong. Show me some USMLE scores of those who have done their basic science online and failed and I will consider what you say as being fact.

Hi,

You appear to have researched the issue of online studies. I have spoken to a number of PDs; alot do not seem to care where you did your medical studies, mainly basic sciences. One point that was made to me is that one cannot truly determine the quality of education outside the US. So, most rely on the USMLE as a baseline for decision making.

When I was a perfusionist back in the late 70's and early 80's, I could still remember the severe ridicule inflicted upon Carribean med students, SGU and AUG. Then, shortly after these two schools, Ross came into the picture. It just seems like yesterday when many wanted these schools shut down. A friend of mine went through Cook County, family practice. Then, they were mainly older individuals; a number of these individuals had transferred between Carrib schools or went to South America. He actually went, initially to SGU, but transferred due to political climate. His attendings and residents gave him attitude on occasion; however, the most severe resistance came from people, who were outside the medical profession.

While most of the people here seem to give very good, sporadic rationals why online education should not be fully accepted. I have not yet reviewed a coherent argument against it; just as in the 70's and 80's, why the carribean schools could not be a viable alternative to US medical schools if one had multiple rejections or other disappointing circumstances. The rationals against basic sciences online are virtually identical to the past rationals against Carribean schools. For example, licensing and quality clinical exposure prior to the wards for the last two years of medical school. I still remember the primary objection by one PD against Carribean schools, that they lacked adequate clinicals. At the time, it was seen as suspicious that these off shore schools would cut their students loose after the basic sciences to hospitals in US clinical settings when most of the medical schools around the world have substantial clinical facilities. Even if they did get US clinicals, I witnessed so-called 'separate-but-equal wards". Also, I remember a non-medical advocate propose in the early 80's that a foreign-educated medical graduate be required to have most if not all of his/her clinical training be in the country where the medical school was located. He wanted to eliminate all Carribean schools. However, it seems that there are at least two moderators from AUG and SGU, who have been to quality residencies and are already or will be fully licensed.
Furthermore, I find it difficult to understand the resistance against acceptance of online studies for the first two years. There are a number of US medical schools that have incorporated this into their curriculum. For example, Harvard, Loyola, Northwestern, and Stanford. The trend in US medical basic sciences is to lower the class time hours. After reviewing the rate of innovation, it is a matter of time before the entire curriculum, basic sciences and some clinical procedures, will be online. One example, Northwestern University has a procedure in place where PBL sessions, anatomy and neuroscience lectures can be reviewed at a future date.
Again, I do not see all the issues against online studies. That really is for the self-appointed experts. However, I also never fully accepted the rationals against the Carribean schools in the past. I believe just as in the case of the Carribean schools; it is dependent on time and money before online basic sciences will be seen as an equally viable alternative. It is fundamentally the individual, who must take full responsibility for his education and career.

__________________
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Thank you. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who recognizes this.

Just as you have pointed out, there is no hard evidence to support the claim that doing basic science online is less effective than attending lectures on campus. In fact, I have evidence to support the fact that you can learn basic science online. My evidence is the students from my school who have taken and passed the USMLE. If anyone wants to discount this, then we must also discount the reliability of having such a test at all because there is no seperate test given to medical students based upon the school they attended. A person who studied at Harvard must take the same exam that a person at IUHS must take. If the person from IUHS passes the USMLE, then there is no credit to say that his/her education was ineffective. What's left is only the opinion of others who say it can't be done.

Though I cannot speak for IUHS or other schools that do have basic science online, I have choosen a medical school who has the same curriculum as a US medical school, is an accredited medical school in Ghana/Liberia, has clinicals rotations in the country which it is located, has hospital affliations in it's own country where students can do residency, has a main campus, has faculty who are qualified to teach medicine, Students who have passed the USMLE, students in residency and clinicals in the US and is listed with ECFMG, WHO and IMED. Yet, there is a double standard because none of this matters since the medical boards in the US can overlook how well you've done on the USMLE, the schools medical curriculum or it's accreditation in the country it is located and use excuses that the schools medical library isn't big enough. So this makes you ineligible for licensure. What a joke. And our government allows this to take place!

I'm sure that there will always be skeptics out there. But the only skepticsim that we really should be concerned about is the USMLE, the medical boards freedom to discriminate, and medical schools who fail to turn out compentent physicians.

Good luck

I am coming into this forum a bit late but nevertheless the topic is interesting and seems to draw out polarized outlooks from both traditional and nontraditional perspectives.

Although at the present time I am personally reluctant to attempt tackling the online format choosing to alleviate some headaches in part because I am unwilling to cough up $68,000 only to be denied a chance to sit for the USMLE, I do have three friends that did in fact take the online path.

One was already a physician assistant here at Johns Hopkins. Upon completion of the MD program in the Carribean, he landed an internal medicine residency in Michigan. The two other friends as with myself were paramedics with a local fire department. One went to IUHS and is doing his clinical rotations now in NY. The other is currently an anesthesia resident at Yale University.

Hello. I'm new to this site. If you don't mind me asking, what school are you taking your online basic science courses at? I am interested in an online program but I am a little apprehensive due to potential licensure problems. Please let me know. Also, does anyone else know any other schools that offer the basic science portion online? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

she hasn't been on in a while but quit her online program (you can do a search) She states she is going to a college to get eligible to go to a real medical school.

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Still skeptical after all these years.
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