I am an American hs student interested in a 6-year m.d. program overseas. I am particulary interested in the Charles faculties or Palacky. What are the differences in these programs? What is Olomad like compared to Prague? Will it be difficult to pass USMLE and get into a EM or Gas residency? I know the Charles faculties are licensed by all states but CA and NM, but how about Palacky? What is Czech republic like for an American Student? Do most people know some English or atleast German? How difficult is it to adjust and what is the quality of education like? Also, is it easy to get rotations in the US?

Thanks

-Matt

I will leave the Czech part to NeilC and address the general 6 year parts.

While considering Eastern Europe, please keep in mind that none of the 6 year programs prepare you for the USMLE. They will give you a good background in the basic sciences, but will not teach toward it. There is a very large difference. This means that you will need to invest the time, money and effort to study for the USMLE, while passing the local exams. This is not an easy thing, as the locals do not care that you have an USMLE to pass.

Regarding residencies in EM and Anesthesiology, both are possible though much more competitive than primary care. See http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table5_2003.pdf for match statistics. Anesthesiology 431 positions offered, 321 filled by US seniors. EM 1114 positions offered, 859 filled by US Seniors in 2003 match.

If you have not done so, I would recommend that you check out the Eastern Europe section at www.aaimg.com; also I highly recommend that you travel to whatever place you are considering to check out the local conditions in person before making a decision.

Good luck.

even though the schools may not cater directly to the USMLE, the basic medical curriculim would be the same, would it not? if i devoted time to a USMLE test prep program through the internet, I would have just as good of chance as most AMGs, right?

How about the entrance exams? Are they tough? having taken biology, chemistry, and physics in h.s., should I be able to pass?

Thanks again,

Matt

Re: curriculum. The programs encompass the same material, but from a very different viewpoint. Most med schools in the US (in one form or another) use the problem based learning system, as opposed to the traditional one in use in Central Europe. Clinical connections are not emphasized, rote knowledge and book learning is, as is learning everything (including many useless things) from A to Z. Additionally, the first year of a six year program includes those subjects that US med students have already completed during their 4 year university degree.

Re: USMLE. Learning towards an exam is not the same thing as studying the subject matter. My advice to anyone starting a six year program aiming for the US is to get the test prep books well ahead of time and study from them while (in addition to) studying the regular material. Some people have had luck accessing Internet resources, but the people who have done well that I know either spent the money on Kaplan or spent their first three years studying non-stop. Please keep in mind that most AMGs are not certified to take the USMLE by their own med school unless they can demonstrate that they can pass it by taking very similar exams that are administered by their med school (this is in part the reason for the high pass rate). Their entire basic science education is to prep them for the USMLE and US clerkships; this is not the case in Europe.

Re: same chances as AMG when it comes to residencies. No way. An IMG is an IMG and has a very significant disadvantage when it comes to applying for residencies. The only way to overcome this is to have very good USMLE scores and excellent letters of recommendation, and sadly even this is not enough. All things being equal (or not even) a residency program director will almost always choose an AMG over an IMG.

Re: entrance exams. They are not anywhere near the MCAT category, but that does not mean that you do not need to study. Walking in without a good science background will cause you problems, especially as you are an HS student.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

Also, would I have any trouble meeting undergraduate requirements to become a licensed physician in the US? being that it is a 6year program and does not include a B.A. or B.S. and I went through it straight from high school?

That is a very good question. This depends on the state licensing board and the particular state's requirements. Does anyone else have insight to this question?

I know that many foreign physicians, especially those from Central and Eastern Europe fall into the same category (e.g. no separate 4 year undergrad degree). However, I have yet to hear of a case where a local ('native') graduate from Hungary had a problem getting licensed in the U.S. if they fulfilled all their other requirements.

Interestingly, the California med. board grants recognition to the native language programs of the Central and Eastern European countries thereby allowing licensure of the 'native' graduates, while requiring that the English programs be officially recognized (e.g. accredited by the med board).

How this would play out for a USIMG without a 4 year degree is a mystery to me. Does anyone know more?

Miklos

To NeilC; Would it be worthwhile to post this question on another part of ValueMD in an attempt to get more info?

well, i am not so sure about the undergrad issue...however, since it is a 6 year program, many of those undergrad classes are built in. but, i would call the states you are interested in and specifically ask them.

as for the difference between olomouc (palacky) and the first, second and third faculties...well, as far as i know the greatest difference is simply living in a pretty big city with a lot of expats, etc vs. living in a smaller czech city. the other advantage of first faculty is that (as far as i know) they are the only faculty that has applied for california recognition. so, that may be a factor to consider.

miklos has addressed all the issues in a very complete manner, as usual, and i would agree with him. passing the usmle is not too tough, but it does take a bit more work. you learn the material, but you need to do some extra work to learn how to apply the knowledge to the usmle. a prep course is a good idea, but you can also just talk to others who have done it and build your own study program. as for residencies, all are possible, but the more competitive specialties will take some extra work and you need to put a shine on your application somehow (great step 1 and 2 scores, lors, etc...)

best of luck in your decision, and hopefully i will see you around the city!

M4, you will definitely be able to pass the entrance requirements. Although the physics part is a bit difficult, I would say that the entrance exam is more of a convention than any measure of standard to your level of performace. Its not prospective. Im speaking from experience, having attended for less than a month the Charles University in Czech this past year. I switched to a university back at home because I was facing a lot of problems and decided that it wasnt worth it for me. I think if you are coming straight out of high school you should really get your undergraduate degree from the US and then apply to US medical schools. If it doesnt work out then explore your options in other areas. You will face a thousand times more hardships and challenges if you decide to go there, BELIEVE ME! Im not saying that the school in itself is bad, in fact the professors were all basically good and the classes werent extremely difficult (but they did require a lot of studying) and it gives a good education. However you are kidding yourself if you think that you will have it like you would in the US...because you wont! You will have to learn the language first of all, usually there are people who speak in English but there are an equal amt of people who dont. But the people are usually surprisingly really polite and nice. But really I would definitely say dont put this as a first choice! Look into your options in the US first, there are cultural experiences you can have without putting yourself at a disadvantage by going to a foreign country when you have so many options at home. If you are really set on getting into a **/md program there are many options in the US. Also one thing to consider is that out of last year's graduating class I think there were only like around 12 grauduates and the starting class was around like 50 people or something?! So its not a piece of cake by any means (its not like that anywhere but especially here). If you have any more specific questions I would be glad to anser them for you...you can pm me.

thanks for all the info, I'm really just researching my options. the main reason I was intersted in foreign schools was more for the experience rather than the easiest route to becoming a doctor. I live in Virginia and I am going to apply to VCU/MCV's b.s./m.d. program, but I'm pretty sure I don't have much of a shot (1340 sat and 3.4gpa), but I'll apply nonetheless. If I don't get in, I'll just go the traditional route, b.s. at a good state school (UVA, JMU, VT) and hope to matriculate into medical school a year or two after graduation.

-matt

I hope it works out for you, your plan sounds good and practical. The biggest sway for me to attend Charles when I did was because I thought it would be so great to get to live in Europe-which just did not cut it when I actually went there. Practically every US school has a study abroad program so I would encourage you to look into that at whatever college you decide to attend. Good luck!