I do agree with your points. I think mall screenings, ect are horrid. I would never give supplements out like you mentioned. That is crazy! I would only see a patient a 3 times per week if they were acute (or asymptomatic with structural deformities....such as scolisosis or reverse cervical curve). Can you imagine if a patient had to go the the office everytime they swallowed a pill.....they have to come in to be treated in our case. I do know of med schools that don't require a degree to get in. That is up to the system. I am going to push Cleveland Chiro College to change their policy on that.....I've got them to bann AK, Muscle Testing, ect. I think that it is insane to treat a pt for asthma, allergies, ect. However, It is neat when they happen to improve under your care. That should never be a primary objective. I understand your thing with PTs. In my state, they work for both of us when needed and refferd to.

it is good to see that you have an open mind to the negatives, and are working for change.

if chiropractic limited itself to practicing based on evidence, if the profession was more active in producing research and studies documenting efficacy, i would be all for it. if the profession was able to rid itself of all the folks out there practicing on the fringe, it would be great for the many legit DC's out there. unfortunately, my experience with chiropractic has lead me to veiw its practioners with a skeptical eye. it is unfortunate, but i have had some negative experience.

in the future, given a well defined, evidence based scope of practice, i would certainly consider DC's a valued part of the health care team. i hope this happens. but, for now, i am much more comfortable with PT's training, and what they can do for patients. unfortunately, this is also the perception of nearly every MD that i work with.

so, chiro has a way to go, in my humble opinion. it sounds like you are dedicated to the profession, and i admire that you aim to raise the bar for both schools and the practice of chiropractic. i wish you luck in your endeavors, and i do agree that well studied modalities of chiropractic that benefit my patients should be utilized, and when i am comfortable with the process and results, and when i am convinced my patients will benefit, i should send my patients to a DC.

Do you believe in vaccinations? Many chiropractors do not.

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Moderator - State Licensing Forum

Still skeptical after all these years.
This is it. There are no hidden meanings.WYSIWYG

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Yes and no. In my family, 2 children died after they were vaccinated for pertusis. Well, our MD said my younger sisters should not get it. Well, they ended up getting pertusis when they were 6. It was 2 months of coughing and vomiting. I could see how it could effect an infant or a region of poverty. In 1986 in kansas, there were 1,300 cases of pertusis. That seems high. What is even more strange is that over 2/3 of the people that had pertusis were fully vaccinated for it. I would surely be vaccinated if there were a deadly outbreak of a VIRUS in our country. For the little things, like chicken pox, ect....seems crazy. When I was little, I was forced to play with friends when they got the pox so I could get it and get it over with. Now, they want to give a pox vaccine. Well, if the vaccine is effective, it is likely that it is only good for 15 to 20 years. You now have an adult that can get the pox virus and, that becomes a problem for the adult. So, to sum it up....I would reconmend vaccination, depending on the circumstance. Everyone has to make a personal stance to it. I am vaccinated so far. It is probable that I never will be again, unless there is an out break (no, west nile is not something to worry about, polio or small pox-yes). I have relatives that have never been vaccinated or had an antibiotic their entire life. They have gotten by fine.

someone described osteopathy as a new thing.
It is not.
I was delivered by a D.O., nearly 54 years ago.
It was started by Andrew Taylor, an M.D. in the
late 1800s.
Daniel David Palmer founded chiropractic in this
country a bit later than Taylor founded osteopathy.

The D.O. who delivered me, Dr. Richard Eby, founded
the College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific,
now known as the Western University of Health Sciences,
after adding PA, Pharm and PT programs (among others,
I'm sure.)

__________________
There were over 80 million reports of food poisoning last year...more involving fruits and vegetables than involving beef...


Coming soon:

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In the midwest (Mo/Ks/etc.) DO's are the family practice folks for many people. My doctor when I was an adolescent,Dr. Hand, was an amazing doctor....when I was 7 my mother worked at the Osteopathic College in KC and had a heart attack...he took care of her for free and organized all of the doctors to put money together so she was paid like she was still working so that my family could survive....he was a doctor's doctor...and I think of him often..DO's are good doctors....their knowledge of the body is like an engineers knowledge of the bridges...if you have pain they can do amazing things for you,in addition to meds and surgery.

az skeptic

__________________
Moderator - State Licensing Forum

Still skeptical after all these years.
This is it. There are no hidden meanings.WYSIWYG

http://www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

http://www.chiropractormds.homestead.com/index.html

it just seems like the old guard is refusing to let your profession evolve and is holding on to that sublexation and cure all crap. medicine at the turn of the century was barbaric and the last person you ever wanted to see was a surgeon yet as new thinsg developed we let go of blood letting and adopted aseptic techinique.

chiros have their place and can play an integral part of patient care specially since insurance will not pay a DO to do manipulation but will pay a chiro but it is an issue of keeping the education scientific based and stoping this life university cult indoctrination.

what bothers me is seeing MD's and DO's lending their titles to infomercials lately, they should be disbarred, wait that's lawyers..hehe that should not be allowed under any circumstances we are lowering the standards of the profession as soon as a Dr starts pushing miracle pimple cream we start losing credibility. Then it will be like those vitamin commercials when they interview Dr jones and at the credits it reveaqled that he's a DC and all of a sudden the vitamins don't seem important anymore. the over commerciaization coupled with your "hippies" has done a lot of harm to your profession and a diservice to patients who could really benefit from it . i had a patient refuse chiro referraal b/c he was diagnosed in the mini mall and didn't trust them. he went to a neurosurgeon and was in rehad for six months

__________________
OBGYN PGY II
I see light at the end of the tunnel!!!...wait a minute its just another freakin tunnel!

It is not only the old guard...slowly but surely I am realizing that some people who go into chiropractic medicine are people who couldn't pass the exams for MD's anyway...so you basically have people who are struggling helping people who have problems...an example..anyone who believes in the fairy tales that are taught by those who believe in Dr. Palmers work are not in touch with reality......many people who become DC's want to help people and embrace the whole weird thing that sublaxations are the root of all problems...even though 2 DC's can't read the same xrays the same and show the problem.....Teratos has a great saying on his signature..something about Medicine is entertaining patients until they get well themselves...that is what much of chiropractic appears to be because the treatments can't be doing it.......

If you want to read some choice stuff read Dr. Sid Williams of Life University (no longer the president)'s stuff.....basically crack the back and heal what ails you.....

with that said, there are chiropractors who do good stuff for backs...seen it myself....

az skeptic...not anti-chiropractic...anti quackery though

__________________
Moderator - State Licensing Forum

Still skeptical after all these years.
This is it. There are no hidden meanings.WYSIWYG

http://www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

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Actually, chiropractic was founded 109 years ago, in 1895 by DD Palmer. I do agree with you AZSKEPT....Palmers have really screwed the system. They have their BJ Bibles, are completely straight, they form the ICA and break our proffession into 2 parties, and they also prevented the the Medical School of Florida State from having the chiropractic students in their classes until the clinical portion. I agree with you all, and I am a DC. It is true that many chiros get different listings when reading x-rays. It is stupid. However, it is dumb to say that thrusting at someones T5 level is just going to move T5. It doesn't move anything. It stretches the ligaments at the T5 region. So, if you have a right-handed curve at the T5 level, you thrust at the APEX of the curve back to the left. You also want the pt to do right lateral bending exercices, change posture, and undergo therapy for the muscle spasm, myalgia, ect. So, a T5 listing is not going to be that different if treated like T4 or T6, which another doctor treats as a different listing. Furthermore, the radiograph is used to rule out cancers, DJD, arthrotides, vascular disorders (AAA), and other things that mimic pain....

prsch132... for my own information, could you please explain how the chiropractors in your family make $500,000 to $700,000 per year? I'm just interested to see what they charge for services, work hours, and how that all adds up etc.... to $500,000 to $700,000. Or if any chiropractors could explain, that would be OK.