If this school ever produces a charter, will you guys keep ripping on him, and for what reason?

This said, I am old enough (older than most hot shots that post in these forums) to remember when the big 3 opened back in 1978. They were laughing stocks to the mainstream medical community. Look at them now ( well Ross still has folks ripping it). This said, and using todays events, technology and recent development with some schools that have opened in recent years, I am almost convinced that if the internet would have been around in 1978 none of the big 3 would be in existense today. I mean, using the same quality of ripping and speculation, and believe me, ther was some speculation back then, they would have not stood a good chance. Most of you were not even born then. Even after almost 30 years in business the image of Caribbean medical schools is tarnished (yes more schools popping up than drug stores in Ciudad Juarez mainstreet) that does not help. Some things never change I guess, and when they do, it is not necessarily for the best.

That these forums allow more scrutinity, true, no doubt. To what extent are we using these tools in a positive and constructive way? That is the big question.

If the school has used the wrong marketing in their website, and If anyone believes it's a scam (which I insist is a serious accusation that will require a substantial burned of proof and can sometimes backfire on the acuser), log your complaints with the appropiate authorities if you have standing. Very simple. Has anyone done that? I don't mean to ddefend anyone here (I am trying to be balanced, leaving my emotions out of the argument), we are masters of our own dominions and owners of what we say and do.

Let's see if the charter is granted. Be patient guys and gals. Be patient.

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...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion

your whole argument is flawed. might i direct you to AUA whose birth was watched here on valuemd. go ahead, do a search. you will find the scrutiny.

do a search in their forum with my username when they just opened up. you will see me calling them out on a lot of things. valuemd uncovered a lot of their shady business practices.

you want to know what? THEY CHANGED AND STARTED DOING EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK. they now have NY approval and will probably be applying to cali in a few years.

the problem is that CMU consistently thinks we are all stupid and tries to pull fast ones over us even when it is so obvious that its fake.

MAX, you see AUA is a perfect example to counter your whole argument. heck, even IAU had a little scrutiny on here at first. MUA-belize still does have scrutiny, but not that much. you want to know why? its because they have a charter and it is theoretically possible for their graduates to become physicians in the US. that its obviously not the case with cmu at this current juncture.

why you have such a hard time seeing this is unknown. the only other school that was in a simiar situation with the charter was st chris. we all know what happened there.

on another post, you showed us that st chris is now in IMED. pardon my lack of enthusiasm. tell that to the loads of st chris students that lost their money, now have tons of legal fees, and had to transfer back in the day. want to know why? senegal refused to produce a charter for this school!!!!!

the current st chris now is in IMED which is the link you gave earlier. have you no recollection of the original st chris? the original st chris was the one run by PL who made the same mistake that RL is making by thinking that we all are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

max, i would seriously re-evaluate you position. all of your arguments are flawed, hopefully you can see why from my post.

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Dr. Scott
Internal Medicine
PGY-1 in July 2008

AUC Forum Moderator

You are missing my whole point...are we using this forum in a constructive way or not? The way I have seen so many infractions, warings, insults etc. I am inclined to believe it is not. I beg your pardon, I am not trying to prove if my argment is flawed or not, that is irrelevant for me, I am voicing out my opinion regarding the level of immaturity and unprofesionalism and the series of serious ascusations of fraud and scam by most of the people posting here and am asking if ANYONE has an issue with this school and has standing, take it to the appropiate authorities, I mean, so many acusations of scam, fraud, etc. Dont' you agree ? If you or anyone are so worried about the school, and have any kind of standing, take them to court, report them to the adequate authorities that might have any kind of jurisdiction on it and see what happens.

You missed my last parragraph and got too distracted dissecting my statement for flaws? I don't blame you. Speaking of flawed arguments, answer a straing question....do you have a case against them? Do you have standing? Have you considered filing any kind of complaint against them? FCC, FTC, USPS, Government of Curacao? Netherland Antilles? They are the people you should air your grievance because last time I checked VMD does not get to decide these issues.

My question remains Scott, what will happen if they get the charter? What will be the new reason to rip on it? AUA did not changed because of you, nice try sir, reminds me of Al Gore claiming to invent the internet.

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...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion

fair enough. collectively as a whole, this forum is working because somebody must be reporting them to the state authorities, hence this is why oregon just added them to their misdemeanor list.

as for as AUA, i never said it was me alone who caused them to change. however, i can say i was part of the reason they changed. the constant battles about AUA claiming they can place students in cali rotations where rampant on that forum. i had arguements with AUA officials and even posted an email i had with an AUA official while i posed as a potential california student. i forwarded that email to pat park, who then made frequent visits to the AUA forum to confront them. i am sure i was not the only one who emailed info to the cali med board.

AUA's twinning program. i didnt get involved in this argument too much regarding federal student aid. however, i know many who did that started contacting the DOE.

im not taking credit for anything, VMD takes all the credit. it allowed the scrutiny to make the proper authorities aware of the situation. AUA then completely changed their tactics.

so, im sorry you misinterpreted my previous post as me personally taking credit for AUA's reversal. come on, lets be real. AUA and VMD should be the only one who should take credit. VMD was the forum that showed AUA that going by the book was the only way to go because people will go to the authorities. i commend AUA on their improvements.

as soon as CMU gets a charter, believe it or not, most of the arguments will go away and the risk of this school will be the same as all the other startups providing they get REAL rotations and can confirm them with concrete hospital affiliations.

all we ask for on vmd is that they have the bare minimum assets that all other startups have. out in the open hospital affiliations and a charter. once they get those (which they lack), the whole website plagiarism will eventually fade into the past if the school progresses without any other signs of deceit just like AUA did.

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Dr. Scott
Internal Medicine
PGY-1 in July 2008

AUC Forum Moderator

I remember AUA and the twinning program and the DOE, even I argued with Sree about it.

I do know the Oregon guy hangs around silently on these forums. I am not very fond to the way he does business, Oregon tends to use anything posted in any sort of media to list a school in their site, but when you have a lay person running things, you can't make 100% of the people happy. At least California and New York has a system implemented site visits, etc. Oregon is a different ball game (I am not saying they don't do a good job, but sometimes they cross the line), all bets are off with them. Different subject anyway.

How about Xavier? Do you remember their status? Didn't they had more or less the same issues in the beginning with their charter because they were not IMED listed or was it for WHO? I can't remember very well.

Max

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...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion

max, where did you think that i personally took credit for AUA changing their tactics? i just stated that i took part in calling them out. i really gave credit to VMD.

lets continue to stay withing TOS, even though your quote about me reminding you of al gore doesnt really bother me because i didnt take any personal credit for the AUA reversal, a moderator might consider that flaming. its ok though.

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Dr. Scott
Internal Medicine
PGY-1 in July 2008

AUC Forum Moderator

its all good, at least we are staying constructive with our arguments.

xavier had people calling them out as well. to be perfectly honest, i didnt really get into their forum. you have to admit that cmu has gotten the attention of everyone with the "documents" that they posted, the lack of the charter, the "preceptors", and the school admin figuratively telling me that i dont have common sense. it kind of strikes a nerve with many.

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Dr. Scott
Internal Medicine
PGY-1 in July 2008

AUC Forum Moderator

....must be a democrat moderator

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...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion

it will be nice if they can post the charter....once they get it, that will be commonsense. I will be patient awaiting for it and see what happens next. I wish them and their students luck, you can't never have enough of it.

Good day

Max

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...."Beyond jealosy and betrayal; beyond hate and desire; beyond pain and death; lies the ultimate revelation; the final choice; the end; because the fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth" Neon Genesis Evangelion

I have a lot of open questions as well, since they have 3 schools now on different islands the Charter issue has never been really clear, yet not one of these posters seem to be on the X forum ripping into the inconsistencies there,

There are numerous other schools, I think the Big reason there are these people are two fold

One, RL answering
Two, some may not be who the seem to be.

No defense of CMU of course, they should be scrutinized as any other school. But it does seem to be a crusade going on, and there will be students attending this school while it is in existence, I see the internet Basic Sci schools are still open and running normal too........

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As a student on Value MD not attending one of the Covenanted schools there is no pleasure in posting anymore.