Future of CMU - Page 12

superhumper · #**111** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlewkowski

It’s obvious they don’t know anything about a process of opening a medical school and all governing laws related to it. Don’t even ask about political situation, monopoly, license, charters. It’s too tough for them to understand.

Hi All,

You sound very confident and looks like you know a lot, so tell us which Government you were referring to?

SH

DOCplucinski · #**112** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlewkowski

Useless and untrue are your posts like that. Students are getting decent education in here. Even SGU transfer is satisfied with the quality of the coursework. As IMED listing will show instruction year as 2007, noone will have any problems with USMLE and licensure, therefore dont post misleading info.

so on a serious note, when is IMED expected?

MYMD · #**113** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 08:58 AM

So with all this emotion aside, what is the future? I think IMED will list them if the Gov on the Island sends and fill out the right Docs. Since I attend SJSM and have read posts on VMD for years I have learned to not trust ANY SCHOOL and look for what is real and what is true. I think the days of WHO listed schools are gone now, WHO still has a note that the list will continue but since they gave the job to another school in the Netherlands thats where the list is "Never Land". It seems we are stuck with IMED as the "List" and "Gulp" the state I love to hate Cali.

BTW I hate to point this out but NY/TX/FL approvals are for the students to do clinicals not Lic, Lic for any FMG is possible in these states, But as is the case in TX Possible does not mean easy lots of hoops to jump through.

MYMD · #**114** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 09:07 AM

Here is the Florida Laws for Lic, ( again I waste my time to make sure a point is made)

link: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes :->2007->Ch0458->Section 311 : Online Sunshine

It took me about 120 sec to look this up then another 120 sec to read. FOr some reasons people would rather post stuff thats wrong and not look it up?

The important part is below then the law follows:

Quote:

(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subparagraph (1)(f)3., a graduate of a foreign medical school need not present the certificate issued by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates or pass the examination utilized by that commission if the graduate:
(a) Has received a bachelor's degree from an accredited United States college or university.
(b) Has studied at a medical school which is recognized by the World Health Organization.

Quote:

458.311 Licensure by examination; requirements; fees.--
(1) Any person desiring to be licensed as a physician, who does not hold a valid license in any state, shall apply to the department on forms furnished by the department. The department shall license each applicant who the board certifies:
(a) Has completed the application form and remitted a nonrefundable application fee not to exceed $500.
(b) Is at least 21 years of age.
(c) Is of good moral character.
(d) Has not committed any act or offense in this or any other jurisdiction which would constitute the basis for disciplining a physician pursuant to s. 458.331.
(e) For any applicant who has graduated from medical school after October 1, 1992, has completed the equivalent of 2 academic years of preprofessional, postsecondary education, as determined by rule of the board, which shall include, at a minimum, courses in such fields as anatomy, biology, and chemistry prior to entering medical school.
(f) Meets one of the following medical education and postgraduate training requirements:
1.a. Is a graduate of an allopathic medical school or allopathic college recognized and approved by an accrediting agency recognized by the United States Office of Education or is a graduate of an allopathic medical school or allopathic college within a territorial jurisdiction of the United States recognized by the accrediting agency of the governmental body of that jurisdiction;
b. If the language of instruction of the medical school is other than English, has demonstrated competency in English through presentation of a satisfactory grade on the Test of Spoken English of the Educational Testing Service or a similar test approved by rule of the board; and
c. Has completed an approved residency of at least 1 year.
2.a. Is a graduate of an allopathic foreign medical school registered with the World Health Organization and certified pursuant to s. 458.314 as having met the standards required to accredit medical schools in the United States or reasonably comparable standards;
b. If the language of instruction of the foreign medical school is other than English, has demonstrated competency in English through presentation of the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates English proficiency certificate or by a satisfactory grade on the Test of Spoken English of the Educational Testing Service or a similar test approved by rule of the board; and
c. Has completed an approved residency of at least 1 year.
3.a. Is a graduate of an allopathic foreign medical school which has not been certified pursuant to s. 458.314;
b. Has had his or her medical credentials evaluated by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates, holds an active, valid certificate issued by that commission, and has passed the examination utilized by that commission; and
c. Has completed an approved residency of at least 1 year; however, after October 1, 1992, the applicant shall have completed an approved residency or fellowship of at least 2 years in one specialty area. However, to be acceptable, the fellowship experience and training must be counted toward regular or subspecialty certification by a board recognized and certified by the American Board of Medical Specialties.
(g) Has submitted to the department a set of fingerprints on a form and under procedures specified by the department, along with a payment in an amount equal to the costs incurred by the Department of Health for the criminal background check of the applicant.
(h) Has obtained a passing score, as established by rule of the board, on the licensure examination of the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE); or a combination of the United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE), the examination of the Federation of State Medical Boards of the United States, Inc. (FLEX), or the examination of the National Board of Medical Examiners up to the year 2000; or for the purpose of examination of any applicant who was licensed on the basis of a state board examination and who is currently licensed in at least one other jurisdiction of the United States or Canada, and who has practiced pursuant to such licensure for a period of at least 10 years, use of the Special Purpose Examination of the Federation of State Medical Boards of the United States (SPEX) upon receipt of a passing score as established by rule of the board. However, for the purpose of examination of any applicant who was licensed on the basis of a state board examination prior to 1974, who is currently licensed in at least three other jurisdictions of the United States or Canada, and who has practiced pursuant to such licensure for a period of at least 20 years, this paragraph does not apply.
(2) As prescribed by board rule, the board may require an applicant who does not pass the national licensing examination after five attempts to complete additional remedial education or training. The board shall prescribe the additional requirements in a manner that permits the applicant to complete the requirements and be reexamined within 2 years after the date the applicant petitions the board to retake the examination a sixth or subsequent time.
(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subparagraph (1)(f)3., a graduate of a foreign medical school need not present the certificate issued by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates or pass the examination utilized by that commission if the graduate:
(a) Has received a bachelor's degree from an accredited United States college or university.
(b) Has studied at a medical school which is recognized by the World Health Organization.
(c) Has completed all of the formal requirements of the foreign medical school, except the internship or social service requirements, and has passed part I of the National Board of Medical Examiners examination or the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates examination equivalent.
(d) Has completed an academic year of supervised clinical training in a hospital affiliated with a medical school approved by the Council on Medical Education of the American Medical Association and upon completion has passed part II of the National Board of Medical Examiners examination or the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates examination equivalent.
(4) The department and the board shall assure that applicants for licensure meet the criteria in subsection (1) through an investigative process. When the investigative process is not completed within the time set out in s. 120.60(1) and the department or board has reason to believe that the applicant does not meet the criteria, the 1State Surgeon General or the 1State Surgeon General's designee may issue a 90-day licensure delay which shall be in writing and sufficient to notify the applicant of the reason for the delay. The provisions of this subsection shall control over any conflicting provisions of s. 120.60(1).
(5) The board may not certify to the department for licensure any applicant who is under investigation in another jurisdiction for an offense which would constitute a violation of this chapter until such investigation is completed. Upon completion of the investigation, the provisions of s. 458.331 shall apply. Furthermore, the department may not issue an unrestricted license to any individual who has committed any act or offense in any jurisdiction which would constitute the basis for disciplining a physician pursuant to s. 458.331. When the board finds that an individual has committed an act or offense in any jurisdiction which would constitute the basis for disciplining a physician pursuant to s. 458.331, then the board may enter an order imposing one or more of the terms set forth in subsection (8).
(6) Each applicant who meets the requirements of this chapter shall be licensed as a physician, with rights as defined by law.
(7) Upon certification by the board, the department shall impose conditions, limitations, or restrictions on a license if the applicant is on probation in another jurisdiction for an act which would constitute a violation of this chapter.
(8) When the board determines that any applicant for licensure has failed to meet, to the board's satisfaction, each of the appropriate requirements set forth in this section, it may enter an order requiring one or more of the following terms:
(a) Refusal to certify to the department an application for licensure, certification, or registration;
(b) Certification to the department of an application for licensure, certification, or registration with restrictions on the scope of practice of the licensee; or
(c) Certification to the department of an application for licensure, certification, or registration with placement of the physician on probation for a period of time and subject to such conditions as the board may specify, including, but not limited to, requiring the physician to submit to treatment, attend continuing education courses, submit to reexamination, or work under the supervision of another physician.

Britimg · #**115** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 09:20 AM

why cmu is even on vmd. i hate the fact that few apples like cmu, st christ etc ruin the reputation for the rest of us. sgu, auc and others had to work very hard to get the reputation they have now and fruadulant institute like cmu does nothing but hurt the image of graduate from these school. back in states, back in europe, they dont distinguish us as cmu, sgu, auc etc.....we are all carib grad. i would say, sue them .... they are indirectly making the things harder for us.

to rl ;- you failed once, and i dont have a shadow of doubt that u will fail again. do u care at all about the studentwho come to u, do u care about the patient who these student may see in future, if any. how many school official u see here with infarctions. u are not being professional, but u are making urself look bad by badmouthing others. i pity the fools who would even consider cmu as a place to get md.

MYMD · #**116** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britimg

why cmu is even on vmd. i hate the fact that few apples like cmu, st christ etc ruin the reputation for the rest of us. sgu, auc and others had to work very hard to get the reputation they have now and fruadulant institute like cmu does nothing but hurt the image of graduate from these school. back in states, back in europe, they dont distinguish us as cmu, sgu, auc etc.....we are all carib grad. i would say, sue them .... they are indirectly making the things harder for us.

to rl ;- you failed once, and i dont have a shadow of doubt that u will fail again. do u care at all about the studentwho come to u, do u care about the patient who these student may see in future, if any. how many school official u see here with infarctions. u are not being professional, but u are making urself look bad by badmouthing others. i pity the fools who would even consider cmu as a place to get md.

Although I think VMD is about marketing a school, it's not supposed to be. This is supposed to be a student site to discuss schools and students to discuss topics, it turns into something else at times.

Two schools with forums here have internet BAsic SCI and advanced standing for Nurses and PA's a big no no yet the forums are on VMD, schools that do not follow normal rules hurt us all.

YES I believe SC did the greatest damage of all

lswiltshire · #**117** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 10:19 AM

Britimig wrote to rl ;- you failed once, and i dont have a shadow of doubt that u will fail again. do u care at all about the studentwho come to u, do u care about the patient who these student may see in future, if any. how many school official u see here with infarctions. u are not being professional, but u are making urself look bad by badmouthing others. i pity the fools who would even consider cmu as a place to get md.

My friend Britimig, in the very brief time I spent at SJMS, one of the senior teachers there said openly that the owner Mr LALA said about standards at SJMS "WE WILL WEED THEM OUT AT STEP 1".

In other words we will open our doors to every Tom **** and Harry at a cheap tuition rate. At that price they must take what they get (such as four different teachers in one course in the same semester). Some will pass some will fail but we would have pocketed thier money.

I have never visited anywhere in my life where students and staff were treated worse. None of my primary or secondary schools had the poor conditions I met at SJMS. And I can go on ad infinitum

The point I am making is that THE ACTIONS OR RL IS PROBABLY ALL THAT HE KNOWS. THIS IS WHAT RL LEARNED AT SJMS. HE CAN ONLY PRACTICE WHAT HE WAS TAUGHT. AND HE WAS TAUGHT WELL

Like everyone else here, I hate to see and read about the happenings at CMU, and I would go as far to say that I hope it closes permanently! I ABSOLUTELY ABHOR BAD MEDICAL SCHOOLS BUt I will die saying RL is practicing all the nasty evils he learned at SJMS. There are scores of ex teachers and former students who were hurt at SJMS. [I have interviewed a number of them for jobs elsewhere, and their stories were not very pretty.]
Such that there is a lawyer on Bonaire who can easily make a living of her SJMS cases.

RL certainly knows about the 2 students that were promised acceptance at SJMS in early 2005 with full credit even though they failed their exams comprehensively at another school. This happened one semester. The next semester 4 students transferred to SJMS from the same school with out even doing final exams.

I am sure the SJMS cheerleaders will try to defend this. But this was corroborated by my SJMS contacts teaching at SJMS at the time. As my dad would say, these events are as true as John 3:16!

So when you hear RL knocking SJMS, I am afreaid to say he is heret telling the truth. Because he is speaking of the training that he is putting into practice at CMU.

By the way, the incidents above is what sparked the calling in of the news reporter from Chronicle of Higher Education to investigate these maters.

finishingfifth · #**118** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 10:24 AM

Thats interseting, but this forum is about the problems with CMU. I am sure SJMS is probably a pretty lousy school. But their school offcials dont come on here and act unprofessional. Only their former employees.

MYMD · #**119** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lswiltshire

...........................

My friend Britimig, in the very brief time I spent at SJMS, one of the senior teachers there said openly that the owner Mr LALA said about standards at SJMS "WE WILL WEED THEM OUT AT STEP 1".

In other words we will open our doors to every Tom **** and Harry at a cheap tuition rate. At that price they must take what they get (such as four different teachers in one course in the same semester). Some will pass some will fail but we would have pocketed thier money.

I have never visited anywhere in my life where students and staff were treated worse. None of my primary or secondary schools had the poor conditions I met at SJMS. And I can go on ad infinitum

I am sure the SJMS cheerleaders will try to defend this. But this was corroborated by my SJMS contacts teaching at SJMS at the time. As my dad would say, these events are as true as John 3:16!

I'm not a CHeerleader for SJSM just for facts and truth. YOu are not in possession of the exact truth just hearsay, I too have hearsay and 1.5 years of first hand knowledge.

1. Do you know the contracts signed by students? I have a copy that I signed
2. DO you have a copy of contracts signed by professors? DO you have taped conversations and transcripts of the agreements spoken at the times? Do you ( I would think not)
3. What is wrong with asking for proof of the allegations anyone makes? You have made them before and I called you on some of them.
4. WHO ARE YOU? BTW I'm a 3rd year student but you claim to have taught in Medschool..........HMM You claim to be a student too? I'm confused. http://www.valuemd.com/658779-post43.html

Quote:

In the bogus school at which I taught in the Cooks last year there were perhaps 300 books but ALL WERE RELEVANT! At least they had that and a proper building for the sudents.

SO are you an ADMIN somewhere? If so you are not supposed to be posting as a student.
5. Of course SJSM is a mess I agree, it need lots of work but they have a charter and there are fully Lic grads from SJSM so the school is legit just not as nice as a lot of others.
6. TRUTH is not cheerleading theres a big difference

I'm sorry you are so angry, you make some good points and SJSM is not a great school but it is enough to get Lic and thats what I have deal with. As I asked stay on topic in the CMU forum and leave SJSM out of it please. When discussing a school Posting both sides is not cheerleading. CHeerleading is more like a lie or a spin.

MODS please take note.

MYMD · #**120** (**permalink**) 08-25-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lswiltshire

.................

We realized early that CMU was a spin off from SJMS. And those who had any previous experience with SJMS were impressed by the website indication that they were better facilities, and hoped that there would be better all round interest for the students welfare. When I heard of its origins, and realized that it was a break off from SJMS, I hoped that the administrator would have used his knowledge of the ills that he had seen and experienced in Bonaire, and that he would have come with a clean act. But NO. We seem to have a case of Monkey see, Monkey do. Because we still have the same poorly run medical school.

.................................................

I again repeat ---- Prospective students must learn to listen to the hoary heads of the longtime members of the valueMD forum. When they say look before you leap, you must heed or end up smashed on the rocks.

This school is not a spin off of SJSM please stop posting this!

Just beacuse RL worked there and a few other people does not make this SJSM! This logic used then employees of WalMart who go to work at Macys then Macys becomes WalMart? I'm trying to understand here?

MUA and SABA is owned by the same people and even in this strong link only SABA is approved in CALI. IMO the logic does not hold up

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