Thread: Doing a Residency in UK versus US to come back to Canada?

seen as how canadian residency programs are 1 year longer than american ones, does anyone know if the UK programs are also 1 year longer?

is it easier to come back after a UK residency?

the crummy part i understand is that when we finish a residency in the US that we have to do an extra year to match up to canadian standards.

i dont know where im going with this but maybe we can open up a useful conversation on this.

please no political or religious digressions.

thanks

Originally Posted by restlesseye

seen as how canadian residency programs are 1 year longer than american ones, does anyone know if the UK programs are also 1 year longer?

is it easier to come back after a UK residency?

the crummy part i understand is that when we finish a residency in the US that we have to do an extra year to match up to canadian standards.

i dont know where im going with this but maybe we can open up a useful conversation on this.

please no political or religious digressions.

thanks

uk post graduate training is a little... messed up in my humble opinion. there is no organized central matching system. positions open up here and there as they become available, usually twice a year in february and in august... from what i heard anyways.

there's no hard set rules that you can look up in one website like you can on NRMP for US and CaRMS for canada. there's the GMC website but it's usually about policies regarding "registration" (aka licensing), but nothing much on how to actually go about obtaining post graduate positions and the eligibility criteria for each level.

the general idea is that a fresh medical graduate from a british school must serve as a PRHO (preregistered house officer) first. i guess that's "intern or PGY-1" equivalent for US/canada. now this was apparently 1 year long, then now it's two years long, and the name is being changed also from PRHO 1 & 2 to foundation year 1 & 2. after PRHO, one can supposedly work as a JHO (junior house officer), but i don't know if this term is in effect still with that introduction of second PRHO year. anyway, the JHO of the past was 1 year in duration. after JHO, you can then qualify as SHO (senior house officer), which can be 2, 3, 4, 5, who knows how long, depending on specialty, your previous qualification, who you know, etc.

i got pretty fed up trying to learn the british way of things. a working GP who takes in a medical student for clinical rotations claims that to qualify as a GP, the route is PRHO 1-2, JHO 1, SHO 1, for total 4 years after medical school. then i read something on this forum saying that there's no JHO anymore (or there never was?). i spoke to a britsh OBGY and she told me that it's PRHO 1, JHO 1, SHO 1-3, for total 5 years to be OBGY that she is. but supposedly if you come from a foreign school with an MD degree, you can skip PRHO and JHO straight into SHO (if you can find an SHO job that'll hire you that is). but when you look at the GMC site, without previous registration, it doesn't seem to matter what degree you have from where (as long as non-EU), or how much you've been in practice, you gotta do your PRHO.

apparenly the jobs can be as short as 6 months. so apparently one of the british medical grad, did only 6 months for PRHO at hospital A, then another 6 months for PRHO at hospital B, then went straight into SHO. apparently he was exceptionally "bright". the fact that his SHO job was interviewed by his aunt didn't hurt i suppose.

anyway all this reminded me of business jobs. there's no rule that to become a CEO you must have MBA and 5 years of post graduate training. if your dad owns the company, you get the job. or if you can impress your employer by having a harvard bachelor's degree in economics, you might also get hired. get the picture?

now i realize that this all hear say. but from what i gathered thus far, british system sounds like jumping hoops and cutting corners with who you know. i mean, in US/canada, there's no way you can go into PGY-3 without having done PGY-1 and 2 first. each PGY year is always one year in duration, there's no short tracking it. each specialty has uniform length of duration in total (majority of the time anyway), so i know if i'm looking at peds, it'll be 3 years in post grad training, if i'm looking at radio, it'll be 4 year, so forth. in britain? so far i haven't found a way to come up with any concrete number let alone a vague idea. basically i think if you can convince whoever hiring you that you can do the job as a SHO, it doesn't seem to matter what and for how long you did your previous training.

just my two cents... it'd be nice to get some facts cleared up!

Originally Posted by Kirst

Originally Posted by restlesseye

seen as how canadian residency programs are 1 year longer than american ones, does anyone know if the UK programs are also 1 year longer?

is it easier to come back after a UK residency?

the crummy part i understand is that when we finish a residency in the US that we have to do an extra year to match up to canadian standards.

i dont know where im going with this but maybe we can open up a useful conversation on this.

please no political or religious digressions.

thanks

uk post graduate training is a little... messed up in my humble opinion. there is no organized central matching system. positions open up here and there as they become available, usually twice a year in february and in august... from what i heard anyways.

there's no hard set rules that you can look up in one website like you can on NRMP for US and CaRMS for canada. there's the GMC website but it's usually about policies regarding "registration" (aka licensing), but nothing much on how to actually go about obtaining post graduate positions and the eligibility criteria for each level.

the general idea is that a fresh medical graduate from a british school must serve as a PRHO (preregistered house officer) first. i guess that's "intern or PGY-1" equivalent for US/canada. now this was apparently 1 year long, then now it's two years long, and the name is being changed also from PRHO 1 & 2 to foundation year 1 & 2. after PRHO, one can supposedly work as a JHO (junior house officer), but i don't know if this term is in effect still with that introduction of second PRHO year. anyway, the JHO of the past was 1 year in duration. after JHO, you can then qualify as SHO (senior house officer), which can be 2, 3, 4, 5, who knows how long, depending on specialty, your previous qualification, who you know, etc.

i got pretty fed up trying to learn the british way of things. a working GP who takes in a medical student for clinical rotations claims that to qualify as a GP, the route is PRHO 1-2, JHO 1, SHO 1, for total 4 years after medical school. then i read something on this forum saying that there's no JHO anymore (or there never was?). i spoke to a britsh OBGY and she told me that it's PRHO 1, JHO 1, SHO 1-3, for total 5 years to be OBGY that she is. but supposedly if you come from a foreign school with an MD degree, you can skip PRHO and JHO straight into SHO (if you can find an SHO job that'll hire you that is). but when you look at the GMC site, without previous registration, it doesn't seem to matter what degree you have from where (as long as non-EU), or how much you've been in practice, you gotta do your PRHO.

apparenly the jobs can be as short as 6 months. so apparently one of the british medical grad, did only 6 months for PRHO at hospital A, then another 6 months for PRHO at hospital B, then went straight into SHO. apparently he was exceptionally "bright". the fact that his SHO job was interviewed by his aunt didn't hurt i suppose.

anyway all this reminded me of business jobs. there's no rule that to become a CEO you must have MBA and 5 years of post graduate training. if your dad owns the company, you get the job. or if you can impress your employer by having a harvard bachelor's degree in economics, you might also get hired. get the picture?

now i realize that this all hear say. but from what i gathered thus far, british system sounds like jumping hoops and cutting corners with who you know. i mean, in US/canada, there's no way you can go into PGY-3 without having done PGY-1 and 2 first. each PGY year is always one year in duration, there's no short tracking it. each specialty has uniform length of duration in total (majority of the time anyway), so i know if i'm looking at peds, it'll be 3 years in post grad training, if i'm looking at radio, it'll be 4 year, so forth. in britain? so far i haven't found a way to come up with any concrete number let alone a vague idea. basically i think if you can convince whoever hiring you that you can do the job as a SHO, it doesn't seem to matter what and for how long you did your previous training.

just my two cents... it'd be nice to get some facts cleared up!

"clear as mud" ...actually the system more muddy than you think. Remember they refer to MDs as MBBS and MBCHs.

Originally Posted by pitstar

Originally Posted by Kirst

Originally Posted by restlesseye

seen as how canadian residency programs are 1 year longer than american ones, does anyone know if the UK programs are also 1 year longer?

is it easier to come back after a UK residency?

the crummy part i understand is that when we finish a residency in the US that we have to do an extra year to match up to canadian standards.

i dont know where im going with this but maybe we can open up a useful conversation on this.

please no political or religious digressions.

thanks

uk post graduate training is a little... messed up in my humble opinion. there is no organized central matching system. positions open up here and there as they become available, usually twice a year in february and in august... from what i heard anyways.

there's no hard set rules that you can look up in one website like you can on NRMP for US and CaRMS for canada. there's the GMC website but it's usually about policies regarding "registration" (aka licensing), but nothing much on how to actually go about obtaining post graduate positions and the eligibility criteria for each level.

the general idea is that a fresh medical graduate from a british school must serve as a PRHO (preregistered house officer) first. i guess that's "intern or PGY-1" equivalent for US/canada. now this was apparently 1 year long, then now it's two years long, and the name is being changed also from PRHO 1 & 2 to foundation year 1 & 2. after PRHO, one can supposedly work as a JHO (junior house officer), but i don't know if this term is in effect still with that introduction of second PRHO year. anyway, the JHO of the past was 1 year in duration. after JHO, you can then qualify as SHO (senior house officer), which can be 2, 3, 4, 5, who knows how long, depending on specialty, your previous qualification, who you know, etc.

i got pretty fed up trying to learn the british way of things. a working GP who takes in a medical student for clinical rotations claims that to qualify as a GP, the route is PRHO 1-2, JHO 1, SHO 1, for total 4 years after medical school. then i read something on this forum saying that there's no JHO anymore (or there never was?). i spoke to a britsh OBGY and she told me that it's PRHO 1, JHO 1, SHO 1-3, for total 5 years to be OBGY that she is. but supposedly if you come from a foreign school with an MD degree, you can skip PRHO and JHO straight into SHO (if you can find an SHO job that'll hire you that is). but when you look at the GMC site, without previous registration, it doesn't seem to matter what degree you have from where (as long as non-EU), or how much you've been in practice, you gotta do your PRHO.

apparenly the jobs can be as short as 6 months. so apparently one of the british medical grad, did only 6 months for PRHO at hospital A, then another 6 months for PRHO at hospital B, then went straight into SHO. apparently he was exceptionally "bright". the fact that his SHO job was interviewed by his aunt didn't hurt i suppose.

anyway all this reminded me of business jobs. there's no rule that to become a CEO you must have MBA and 5 years of post graduate training. if your dad owns the company, you get the job. or if you can impress your employer by having a harvard bachelor's degree in economics, you might also get hired. get the picture?

now i realize that this all hear say. but from what i gathered thus far, british system sounds like jumping hoops and cutting corners with who you know. i mean, in US/canada, there's no way you can go into PGY-3 without having done PGY-1 and 2 first. each PGY year is always one year in duration, there's no short tracking it. each specialty has uniform length of duration in total (majority of the time anyway), so i know if i'm looking at peds, it'll be 3 years in post grad training, if i'm looking at radio, it'll be 4 year, so forth. in britain? so far i haven't found a way to come up with any concrete number let alone a vague idea. basically i think if you can convince whoever hiring you that you can do the job as a SHO, it doesn't seem to matter what and for how long you did your previous training.

just my two cents... it'd be nice to get some facts cleared up!

"clear as mud" ...actually the system more muddy than you think. Remember they refer to MDs as MBBS and MBCHs.

um, actually, it's even more muddy than that:

the MBBC/MBCHs/ or MB/B.CH/OB are referring to the DEGREE granted,
and the MD refers to a practicing physician (ie a license).

whereas in North America we don't make that distinction.