Very important thread for all Canadian IMGs

[EdmontonOilers]

Hey guys

I have posted similar posts to this one in this forum before but this one has more info in it and a link that I think all Canadian IMGs should visit. Its a pretty long post but I think its really worth reading if you are a Canadian IMG.

I am a Canadian in his second year at UCD (Ireland). I have found that everyone in the years below me and ahead of me at UCD is planning on going to the US on J-1 visas at the moment.

What would be wrong with just chilling out, doing some observerships and/or research (or maybe fellowship if your lucky) for your 2 years return of service back in Canada? I don’t think having to spend a couple years in back Canada to do any of these things is that big of a deal (as long as you knew that you had a job back in the US when you were done so that you can make a great wage and pay off your loans). I think there is a much more important issue that Canadian Irish IMGs need to consider and don’t seem to be …….

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY CANADIANS WHO HAVE ACTUALLY PROVEN THAT WE CAN COME BACK TO THE US AFTER OUR 2 YEARS RETURN OF SERVICE IN CANADA!!!!!! IF MOST OF US CANADIANS ARE GOING TO THE US ON J-1s AND SOME IF NOT MANY OF US DON’T GET J-1 WAIVERS THAT MEANS MANY OF US WILL END UP COMING BACK TO CANADA FOR 2 YEARS. I THINK ITS GREAT THAT AS CANADIAN IMGs WE KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT THE USMLEs, J-1 VISAS, STATEMENTS OF NEED, J-1 WAIVERS, ELECTIVES, LETTERS OF REFERENCE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY FOR THOSE OF US ENDING UP BACK IN CANADA FOR 2 YEARS IT WOULD ALL MEAN S*** IF WE COULDN’T GET BACK INTO THE US FOR JOBS. Granted, a lot of us want to stay in Canada after our 2 years and take the Canadian exams and work as physicians but personally I never want to put myself in a situation where I’m relying on Canada for a job as a foreign IMG even with a highly regarded US residency under my belt (see http://members.tripod.com/~donalda13/canimgexp.html). If I can get a residency as a GP in Canada after my degree great, but I have heard of Canadians not getting jobs back in Canada after their residency in the US and I don’t think it would be responsible to rely on this as a sole option.

SO, DOES ANYONE KNOW IF CANADIANS IMGs ARE GETTING BACK TO THE US AFTER THEIR 2 YEARS IN CANADA? I mean if we work hard we can pass our Irish medical exams, do well on the USMLEs, get residencies on J-1 visas and complete our US residencies. I am completely confident that any hard working Canadian IMG from Ireland can do this. But I find it surprising that no one seems to be worrying/researching the situation that many of us will be in after being in Canada for 2 years and looking for a job back in the US!!!!!!!!! (I know it probably depends on what type of residency training we got in the US so lets assume we have done a primary care specialty since most of us probably will). If getting back to the US is hard/impossible/takes many years to accomplish then you can ace the USMLEs, do some great US electives and get the best US residency in the world but you will still be screwed if you end up stuck in Canada doing research or something other than practicing medicine (assuming your goal is to return to the US after your 2 years and bearing in mind that it is difficult to practice medicine back in Canada even after a US residency – this is the general impression I have gotten anyway (see http://members.tripod.com/~donalda13/canimgexp.html) – I am speaking for people who want to return to the US for financial/personal reasons instead of trying to work in Canada).

It is the only part of this whole process that no one seems to have answers on and NO ONE CAN ACTUALLY GIVE ANY EVIDENCE THAT CANADIAN IMGs ARE MAKING THIS FINAL TRANSITION AND ACCOMPLISHING THEIR ULTIMATE GOAL OF WORKING IN THE US. I have been trying to get answers on this for many weeks and tried contacting many upper years to get this question answered but no one seems to know. It seems absurd that we know so much and are concentrating so hard on the whole process up to this point, yet no one knows about the logistics/possibility/steps of going back to the US after the 2 years in Canada. Sorry, Ive really gone off on a tangent here. I mean, I know we would need to go back on an H1-B visa. To get this visa we would need a hospital to sponsor us. Have any Canadians achieved this? How hard is it? Do we all end up staying in Canada possibly working as physicians, doing research, or delivering pizza? Apparently there are a lot of unemployed doctors in Canada. Are any of these UCD grads with US residencies completed?

Its just really bothering me that none of us Canadian IMGs seem to be caring about this or trying to find out about this. It seems EXTREMELY important to me since it is the final piece of the puzzle and just as important as all the pieces preceding it. I also think its irresponsible to just ASSUME that we must be able to get back since we have a US residency. Wouldn’t it be nice to hear about Canadian IMGs who are actually doing this? Some Canadian IMGs will tell me; its such a long ways away, don’t worry about it, OR it all works out it the end concentrate on the other stuff first. But this doesn’t make any sense to me and seems very foolish because before doing A and B and C, shouldn’t we find out whether or not we will eventually be able to do D?

If there are any Canadians IMGs who are: (1) almost done their US residency, (2) have done their residency and are back in Canada or on J-1 waivers (3) have finished their 2 years return of service in Canada and are now practicing in the US (4) aware of any other IMGs in any of the preceding situations ….. could you please shed some light and concrete evidence on this all important issue that no Canadian IMG that I know of really seems to be taking seriously.

It boggles my mind, I mean, this is the last all important step and it seems like no one cares about it or is bothering to research it. We know so much about all the other steps and are working so hard to achieve them yet it seems like there is nothing out there about this last one. It is driving me crazy!!!

Anyway, sorry once again guys for the long post but this issue is really bothering me and I think it REALLY needs to be addressed and researched by all us hard working, driven Canadian IMGs who are going down to the US on J-1s and eventually want to practice medicine in the US!!!!!!!!

The link that I included in my first post under this thread isnt working right so for those of you who are interested you can get to the appropriate web page by doing a google search on "The Ultimate Canadian International Medical Graduate Web Site." It should come up as the first link listed on the search results. Once you get to the web page scroll to the bottom of the page and click on the link "Canadian International Medical Graduate Experiences."

I think if you're a Canadian IMG you may want to have a look at this site.

Thanks

[LFP]

As far as I know, you can return to US after your fulfilling your home country requirement (for the j-1) in Canada on an H1B when an employer in the US hires you. I know of non-Canadian IMGs who are doing this instead of doing a waiver. I don't see why this would be a problem for Canadians.

I am on a j1, and I got a waiver in the US as well as a PGY 4 in Ontario, and so I am planning to returning to Ontario.

[LFP]

As far as I know, you can return to US after your fulfilling your home country requirement (for the j-1) in Canada on an H1B when an employer in the US hires you. I know of non-Canadian IMGs who are doing this instead of doing a waiver. I don't see why this would be a problem for Canadians.

[Silenthunder]

I don't know if you needed to post this 4(?) times.

I'm also not sure if I understand what you're asking - since you repeated it about 6 times in each post. I think you're asking about the success rate of getting a J1 waiver

or maybe you're asking about returning to the US after doing 2 years in canada after your J-1 is done.

either way i don't think i can help you. Everyone I know is on a H1 - I'm an SGU student, and it seems to be the visa most of the canadian people who are planning on pursuing residence in the US are getting.

your link to "the ultimate IMG (......) site" is a link to a site which is dated. I don't think you should use this information as a source of anything, other than this one particular person's experience.

please clean up your original post. It is very hard to read, and fairly difficult to understand. You may have raised some valid points in there, but by the end I wasn't sure what you were asking

[EdmontonOilers]

I didnt mean to post this thread twice. I hit "submit post" twice by accident. I let the forum administrator know and have asked him/her to delete one of them.

I admit my posts are long and I do repeat myself unnecessarily. Sorry. Ill try not to do this so much anymore. I got carried away. But I think my posts are all very clearly written and as far as Im concerned what I am asking is pretty straight forward. Im tempted to revise and shorten my message and repost it but since I have already made too many posts with the same information in it I dont think this would be a wise thing to do. Sorry.

[ceecee]

I understand the questions you are asking, and I think they are very valid questions, which as you said are rarely addressed.

Although I am not quite there yet regarding the groups you are targeting your question to (I am a CDN who is only starting US resdiency on J1), I do have an opinion as to why you don't see too many people addressing the topic.

US licencing rules are very straightforward and in fact IMG friendly. Especially when you have done an ACGME approved residency. Basically as long as you pass the USMLE, and specialty specific (Board Certification) exams you can get a licence. Of course you need a GC or H1 visa or something to legally work.

I dont think it is a problem to come to the US because there are many jobs out there and hospitals willing to sponsor visas and the like. During my rotations in US hospitals I have personally seen many postings for jobs across the US for graduating residents, and many of them specify that they will sponsor H1 etc.

In my opinion the ease of obtaining a job as an IMG after residency (and even for a Canadian after the 2yr home requirement) is not a hot debate because there are no obstacles/difficulties. Basically it is easy...so why even talk about? That is my take.

Of course I know you want evidence and real world examples. I dont have any personally, however consider the number of Canadian physicians who leave CDA to go to the US. They are perfect examples. They all require visas and have no problems getting Job offers. They are no different than the doc who was back in CDA on a 2yr J1 requirement. Also consider all of the "other" IMGs like those from India, Pakistan, Middle East, Russia etc who do residencies in the US and then get jobs in the US on yet another visa. There are tons of them. Again these people are no different then the US trained IMG who returned to CDA for 2 years.

I really dont think that there is anything about returning to CDA for 2 yrs that can prevent you from obtaining a job in the US later on. The J1 visa does not have any rules other than you return for 2 years. After that you are free to come back to the US....plain and simple. Of course it might be easier to get a US job if you were working in your specialty in Canada for those 2 yrs simply because it shows that you have maintained your skills and haven't been sitting on a log the whole time.

Obviously I haven't answered your Q? as adequately as you are looking for but I do understand your plight....Im in the same boat. I just dont think it is a big issue to worry about. US trained IMGs just dont have a difficult time getting work in the US. For the past 2 yrs I have seen the graduating residents (most of whom are IMGs on visas...H1 and J1) being offered several jobs each.

Good luck on your quest for the truth....I am going to follow it

ceecee

[EdmontonOilers]

Hey Ceecee,

Thanks very much for your reply. Its great to hear from upper years in residency who can share their insights on issues such as this. I am beginning to agree with your view on this issue. I think the key is to get a hold of some Canandian alumni that went to Irish med schools that can tell us their experiences. Ill let you know whatever I hear about this. Keep me posted as well.

Thanks

[AusMeds]

Originally Posted by ceecee

Of course it might be easier to get a US job if you were working in your specialty in Canada for those 2 yrs simply because it shows that you have maintained your skills and haven't been sitting on a log the whole time.

As far as I understand the rules, you could return to certain provinces in Canada (eg. Newfoundland, Manitoba) and get a conditional licence to practice medicine based on your completed US residency and you would have 5 years to pass the relevant Canadian exams:

http://www.cpsm.mb.ca/core_functions...es/conditional

This route provides both a viable pathway back to Canada for those of us that want to return home (from Ireland or Australia), and a means to practice medicine in the post-J1 2 years for those interested in returning to the US.

The H-1B visa is still the preferred visa to get for a US residency; however, as I understand it, the J1 can still be made to work - it just means moving around a bit.